14 February 2008
Respect for the Flag
Posted by Terrie Soberg under: Constitution in Peril; Presidential Election 2008 .
An email began circulating shortly after September 2007 with this picture:
According to the U.S. Flag Code:
During a rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.
This picture is of presidential candidates in Iowa. Clinton, Richardson, and Senator Tom Harkin’s wife all have their right hand over their hearts, while Barak Obama just clasps his hands. According to Snopes.com, this is a true story.
I am concerned about having a president who does not show respect to our American flag. Is this a symptom of a much larger problem?
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46 Comments so far...
The Realist Says:
14 February 2008 at 5:35 pm.
Now this is what really scares me a lot more than McCain
CindyL. Says:
14 February 2008 at 5:53 pm.
At least he has the guts to be honest about not being patriotic. McCain is more dishonest. I can’t pick either one. I really can’t give a mandate to socialism or a hundred year war while slipping liberal laws in on us.
The Realist Says:
14 February 2008 at 5:55 pm.
Everyone is saying that this lady at the Romney site is making up everybody’s minds for them. Then what are all of you doing? You are letting these moderators teach you what they think and you are all parroting them. You may think you are thinking for yourselves but you aren’t. You are spouting your lessons like good school chidren.
Nalvy Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:10 pm.
Hey I have to disagree with you Realist… most of our minds had been made up LONG before this site was up. Honestly if people cant decide things for themselves than we really are in a heap of trouble.
AND just because people dont see what you see doesnt mean they are just “parroting” what they are “taught”
Chuck C Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:10 pm.
Good evening Realist. I was confused by your post. Are you referring to this site and are we the parrots, or did I miss your point?
Hank Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:11 pm.
This is bullcrap. No one tells me what to think. When I learn something that is true the light goes on and it fits in with all truth. I’m no parrot.
The Realist Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:13 pm.
I just think that a lot of you would be falling right in line with the rest of the party if you hadn’t been coming to this site.
Chuck C Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:19 pm.
Speaking of mindless parrots, I had a journalism teacher who believed that all news reporters bring some bias to their reporting. That is natural. He also believed that political stories should be reported twice — from each side of the political spectrum — and done in a transparent, honest manner. This way the reporting could be done by advocates rather than “reporters” and the bent of the article would be done honestly and readers could learn from both sides of the aisle and make up their minds with all the facts before them. This site presents information in a fair and honest manner. Those accusing others of being parrots are in danger of becoming a sheared sheep. Baaaahhh.
Nalvy Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:20 pm.
So are you saying Realist that we are sheep either way? That we are all being herded in a certain direction whether on the site or not?
I mean can you honestly sit there and accuse us of being mindless?
Nalvy Says:
14 February 2008 at 6:22 pm.
and another thing….
why is it that when people dont like how somethings are going the say it is because people are just caving into pressure?
Use your own brains and try to figure out a more creative way to determine where we got our thinking from please.
E.E. Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:08 pm.
If people are taught correct principle, they will govern themselves.
Ghost Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:15 pm.
Nailed it E.E. You go girl!
Ghost Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:16 pm.
Glad I stopped in. Interesting tonight but got to go please the lady, after I get the babysitter.
Joy Bischoff Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:22 pm.
I second Ghost. What E.E. said is important I believe. I don’t want us to gang up on The Realist though. We welcome everybody, especially Constitutionalists and I don’t believe just because someone decides to support McCain, that means they no longer love the Constitution. I may have different views but we keep saying that is okay. Still, nothing wrong with trying to convince someone of our own position.
I’m off to a non-computer room to enjoy a Valentines Day movie with hubby. Nite all.
Hank Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:23 pm.
Have fun Joy. But I’m still going to be mad for a bit.
Mac Says:
14 February 2008 at 7:49 pm.
I could not support McCain no matter what anyone said. The man is without any doubt unstable. Putin has been stirring up a pot of crapstew. Him and McCain would butt heads, not to mention the nutty president of Iran. I’m not sure who is crazier him or McCain. I cannot assist the man by the power of my vote to put his finger on the button. Can’t do it.
Terrie Soberg Says:
14 February 2008 at 8:00 pm.
I received an email from someone who was concerned that I did not point out the fact that sometimes Obama does salute the flag. I have read that myself and they mentioned it on the Snopes site.
However, for someone who is running as the President of our country, I feel that he should make it a point of saluting the flag EVERY time. I never forget. Sometimes I have had my hands full with little children or nursing babies and have to improvise, but it’s not a matter of slipping my mind.
Respect is respect–for the country, for its symbol, and for the citizens who live therein if nothing more than to set an example of patriotism.
Jesse Says:
14 February 2008 at 8:07 pm.
I’ve been reading the response to Romney endorsing McCain. Almost everyone is saying we have to back McCain in order to save the party. If the party is remade into a complete different form, then we aint saving the party folks, just its name. I think I remember a blog from a few days back about saving the party over the constitution. It all seems pretty simple to me.
Jesse Says:
14 February 2008 at 8:07 pm.
and btw, I agree with you Terrie.
Roy Bischoff Says:
14 February 2008 at 8:14 pm.
I was just talking with Joy and she mentioned her prediction the day Mitt dropped out that it wouldn’t be long until a lot of people who said they would never vote for McCain line up behind him. The reasoning doesn’t matter so much. She said they were doing it for the party. I said they actually weren’t because, as we have discussed on this site supporting McCain leads to a shift to the left. The Reagan shift to the right and what he stood for is about to be undone. The water is boiling now. Let’s get out of the pot before we are just so much cooked meat.
I also think that Mitt did what he needed to do and I won’t criticize him. But if you support McCain just for that reason. . .Baaaah
Mac Says:
14 February 2008 at 8:57 pm.
Good thoughts Roy.
Cavetrollhead Says:
14 February 2008 at 9:07 pm.
I am writing in Romney. Just write in the candidate you want.
Chuck C Says:
14 February 2008 at 9:18 pm.
We can play “follow the leader”, or look for ways to improve the situation. Alexander Hamilton wrote that men often miss simple and obvious chances to improve their situation because it is easier to follow the status quo.
Our present situation reminds me of a group of young people floating a river in a raft. They have just navigated some very rough water and are now floating on a very calm surface, so they lie down and just float with the current. An island comes into view and without thought, they continue with the main flow on the left side of the island. The current on the right side of the island seemed a little rougher and their present course looked much easier.
Before long the current quickened and someone said “what’s that sound?” One yelled, trying to be heard above the terrific roar, “Quick, let’s paddle to shore!” Too late. Their bodies, along with many more, were later found at the base of the falls.
Are we going to get our paddles out, or just peacefully float along? The smoothest water is on the left side of the island. Everybody else is going that way.
Cameron Says:
14 February 2008 at 9:56 pm.
Holy @$%*& get me my paddle right now! I would rather work now that try it later when the current is too @#*$& strong.
Stumpy Says:
14 February 2008 at 10:31 pm.
Your preaching to the choir son. Now we gotta sing it to the world.
Hey Cammy got room for my fat ass? Gotta bring her cause Cat will need her milk. I may be an old fart but my back is good and I can row hard. I promise not to bite ya if ya can keep yer hands off a Pickles. Shes coming to.
Chuck C Says:
14 February 2008 at 10:54 pm.
Hey, we better get a bigger boat!
Cavetrollhead Says:
14 February 2008 at 11:30 pm.
The Realist, can you explain to me where you are coming from on this page. Is he saying that we all just go along with Joy and Roy say? Is this site “The Romney Site?” Aren’t there Fred and Ron guys here too? I am not sure if I am getting you right, The Realist. Could you be specific about a certain topic?
You may have a good point. If there is an issue that you don’t agree with, just post your disagreement. You may help other people chime in too. I have challenged Joy and Roy on a couple of things. As long as you are specific, I am for hearing about it. Is there something about this Obama blog that you don’t agree with?
The Realist Says:
14 February 2008 at 11:42 pm.
Listen I’m a little confused like I said before. Things are a mess. It seems like we need to try and preserve the unity of the party. There is a lot of talk about unity and not being able to do anything without it. It is starting to me to look like those who don’t suport McCain won’t be enough to do anything and it is better to work within the system. I need time to figure it all out.
Cameron Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:03 am.
Stumpy, if you promise not to bite you can sit by me as long as I don’t have to milk your fat donkey.
Realist, why don’t you go back up to the top and read everything under the icon. See if you think it makes sense and all fits together. Then if you still want to support McCain, great. You will still be welcome here. The last thing anyone wants to do is drive you away. People just didn’t like being told they were blindly following the moderators. The reason we are here is because we have the same core values and feel the same about the Constitution. I really do believe there are absolutes and those make up the foundation of our freedoms. If the foundation crumbles then we are in for rocky times. I didn’t sleep much last night. I did a lot of thinking about all of this, not to mention praying. I have a feeling we are really heading into some rough waters in the next few years just like Chuck said.
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:04 am.
Realist, everyone to the right of McCain is being painted by the press as being “right wing wackos”. That term was used on Larry King Live by a bunch of pundits on Feb. 13. There are cartoons on a site this morning making the same group look like crazy, deranged elephants. Look at http://cagle.com/news/McCainConservative/
Are we deranged wackos and fodder for the “moderates” and liberal press to chew up and spit out and label as fringe? The Christian Right and Conservatives are being made fun of by the press. So, Realist, I guess the best thing to do is to stop being a conservative and get in line. That beats being made fun of.
Angela Rogin Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:32 am.
I can’t believe this. People here have said this is war but I thought that a little harsh, but it is true. I followed your link Chuck. McCain is being portrayed as normal and we are being called far right. It is brilliant because as we know, everyone is so afraid of labels. The label of extremist, especially since 9/11 is about the scariest label of all. This will get people in line unless they are very strong and very wise.
Bryon Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:42 am.
This is now the only site that is not endorsing McCain and not being conspiracy theorists. We just don’t like his positions. I feel that is very important. We are not extremest.
Mac Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:56 am.
I was just getting on here to say the same kind of thing Bryon. It is a relief to know there is somewhere to go as a conservative and find people who feel the same. It is going to get very lonely out there and I am really nervous that most people will buckel under the pressure. And I am starting to think Joy must be a little clairvoyant or something. She’s been writing about all this stuff before it happens. I guess it is that seeing pattern thing or something. So what’s next Joy?
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 9:17 am.
You’re right guys. Glenn Beck addresses the influence of media, or more precisely, the influence of POLLS, in his book “An Inconvenient Book” on page 247″
“SPIRAL OF SILENCE
What a nice little circle the media have put together. They report only the bad news from the war, portray the religious as a bunch of snake-charming nut-jobs, and present every conservative policy, from Social Security reform to tax cuts, as hateful, racist, and uncompassionate. Then the same (supposedly neutral) organizations call people and ask if they support the policies they’ve been describing as evil.
Shockingly, many average people feel some social pressure to give the “correct” answer and avoid appearing like hatemongers. That skews the polls against many issues supported by conservatives.
But the best part is still to come. The media, the same group that influenced the opinion and then measured it, will now go and report on their own poll results as fact, thereby creating yet another story that will help persuade the next round of poll responders to hide their real opinioins.
Polling geeks call this type of reaction the “spiral of sicence.” I call it “How America works.”"
TRANSCRIPT FROM LARRY KING LIVE, FEB 13, 2008:
KING: James Carville and Jamal Simmons remain with us.
Joining us now in Washington, David Frum, the former speechwriter for President Bush, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He blogs for the “National Review,” called David Frum’s Diary. And he’s the author of the recently published “Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again.”
Here in New York is Amy Holmes, CNN political contributor and Republican strategist.
And in Seattle, the Independent political commentator Ron Reagan, son of the former president and first lady, Ronald and Nancy Reagan.
OK, David, today John McCain, who will be on this program tomorrow night, met with the House Republican leadership, trying to unify it.
Is he going to unify your party?
DAVID FRUM, FORMER SPEECHWRITER, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I was actually meeting with a group of Republicans just a few minutes before that meeting began. And they left in a whirlwind. So they were very excited to see him. Yes, I think he will be able to unify the party. The question is will he be able to energize it.
I mean the Republican Party remains a pretty disciplined organization. But it’s also a deeply demoralized organization. And the temptation for John McCain will be to work so hard to bring the core conservatives back to him, that he may lose sight of his bigger and more important problem, which is to hold onto the Independents and the middle.
KING: Amy, are some of those what might be core conservatives — what might be kind of whacko — there is a whacko on both sides of this.
AMY HOLMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well…
KING: They’re over the deep end.
HOLMES: Both sides have their extremes.
KING: They do.
HOLMES: But the conservative, you know, beef with John McCain is real and it’s over real conservative principles and policies. I think David is right, that he’s going to be able to bring the party together.
Will there be that energy there?
Some of the things that conservatives are talking about that he can do substantively, start floating some cabinet name possibilities so that he can sort of signal and reassure conservatives that he’s with them. And that’s a way that doesn’t necessarily — that won’t necessarily alienate moderates and Independents.
Bring conservatives into his inner policy circles. Set up a policy council, again, reassuring conservatives that he’s on the same page, he gets it, he understands what’s important to them.
KING: Ron, you’re the son of a very famous conservative, but you are not a conservative. I’m going to ask to you guess how your father would look at this.
RON REAGAN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: How my father would look at it?
KING: Yes, at the McCain thing and the right-wing of the party kind of going against him.
How would he approach it, do you think?
REAGAN: Well, I don’t make a habit to speak for him. I never did. But I think he would say that McCain’s problem right now is that he wants to unify the party, but the wackos, as you put it, are not going to be happy with John McCain. And the more he tries to please them, the more, as David pointed out, he sells out the Independents that he’s going to need to actually win in November. So he has to be very careful about what he does here. If he starts naming cabinet members to mollify the far right of his party, a lot of Independents are going to look at that and say I don’t want any part of this.
KING: Now, James Carville, most of the times politicians win the nomination and run to the center.
CARVILLE: Right.
KING: Does McCain run to the center?
CARVILLE: I don’t know. Fifty-one percent in Virginia is a pathetic number. And I mean I don’t say that as a Democrat. And Virginia is typically a very orderly state. I think the breach between McCain and the conservatives is real. And it’s not just the Washington and the radio talk show people. There’s conservatives out in the hinterland who don’t much care for McCain. And I suspect he doesn’t care much for them, either.
You know, in politics, one thing I’ve learned over all of these years is sometimes people just don’t really care for each other. And McCain really doesn’t care for these real right-wingers and these real right-wingers don’t really care for McCain.
KING: So, therefore, Jamal, should he just not kowtow to them?
SIMMONS: You know, somebody, I think, wrote this the other day, but it’s true. The more people — what people like about John McCain is that he’s this guy who’s not playing ball with all the typical groups of people. So the more he plays ball with the right-wing of the party, the more he turns off all the people who he’s going to need in the general election.
Jesse Says:
15 February 2008 at 9:25 am.
They are calling people who don’t support McCain wackos. It is going to get very ugly very fast. We are getting disenfranchised.
Stumpy Says:
15 February 2008 at 9:26 am.
Where I come from folks its called getting cut out of the herd so they can pick ya off one at a time. Stick close together so it aint so easy for em.
Angela Rogin Says:
15 February 2008 at 9:29 am.
They are going to try to make us feel extremist and left out by creating polls to reflect that. How evil and twisted is that? I think we are feeling something in the wind and it is warmer together like Stumpy says.
Stumpy Says:
15 February 2008 at 9:38 am.
Could somebody hold my hand please. Im kind a small and I might get blowed away.
The Realist Says:
15 February 2008 at 10:14 am.
When I read here I think one thing and when I read at Committed to Romney I see their point. If we really trusted Mitt the way we say we did then why don’t we trust his judgment now? And it does seem a little petty and unforgiving the hold the past against him. It is Christian to forgive. Then there is the whole unity thing that Ialready brought up. I am going to take my time and not rush into a decision.
E.E. Says:
15 February 2008 at 10:36 am.
I’ve been reading at Committed to Romney also, Realist. I wa struck by something a blogger wrote. She said she is a Mitt supporter first and a republican second. She is doing just what Joy said people would do. She is a kingmaker. She is holding to a man and suspending her own responsibility to study out and make her own decisions. She is not holding to a center based on God given values but to a man. Good luck with your decision
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 10:38 am.
I tell you what would bring me a little closer to forgiving John (follow me Grunt) McCain is if he would apologize to Mitt for his mis-characterization of Mitt’s Iraq “timetable” remarks. A little humility would go a long way towards buying my respect. I don’t think McCain has it in him to be humble. He “acts” humble, but his actions are not humble. I will be the first to forgive someone, but not if he is holding a gun (figurative) to my head.
T. Fan Says:
15 February 2008 at 11:21 am.
I forgive the man. I really do. But what does that have to do with not wanting to have our constitution trampled? The man is dangerous.
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 11:32 am.
Regarding the lady who said she is a Mitt supporter first and a Republican second, if I write in Mitt’s name on my ballot it will not be for that reason. It will be for the principals the Republican Party have represented historically. Ronald Reagan embodied those principals, John McCain has deserted most of them and us.
My core beliefs are not changed because the candidate says they should change. Look at John (follow me Grunts) McCain’s voting record and then look deep in your heart at your principals.
If you feel betrayed, abandoned, hoodwinked, bamboozled, forgotten, duped, confused, bewildered, perplexed and baffled as I do, then don’t feel bad about needing time to make up your mind.
Our situation is not as bad as the Free French during World War II. These were French fighters in World War II, who decided to continue fighting against Axis forces after the surrender of France and subsequent German occupation.
In 1940, General Charles de Gaulle was a member of the French cabinet during the Battle of France. As French defense forces were increasingly overwhelmed, De Gaulle found himself part of a small group of politicians who argued against a negotiated surrender to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. As these views were shared by the President of the Council, Paul Reynaud, De Gaulle was sent as an emissary to the United Kingdom, where he was when the French government collapsed.
De Gaulle was tried in absentia in Vichy France and sentenced to death for treason; he, on the other hand, regarded himself as the last remaining member of the legitimate Reynaud government able to exercise power, seeing the rise to power of Pétain as an unconstitutional coup.
TRANSLATION: Free French relates to Free Thinking Republicans. The McCain grunts equate to those who capitulated to the Germans and became Vichy.
SGS Says:
16 February 2008 at 1:53 pm.
I want to comment something that is related the King transcript as posted by Chuck. I find it amazing that those pundits failed to recognize the base truth of the conservatives and evangelicals — they ARE the grassroot movement of the Republican party. I mean, the independents and moderates are independents and moderates because they want to remain neutral. They want to have the option to look at the “whole” picture and decide which candidate would fit in thier picture better. They do not have any vision on the direction this country should go. Rather, they only see the big picture. No, they only see what matters to them individually and at the present time. For example, they see the higher premium on their healthcare, as such, they want someone to do something to cut down on their monthly fee. They do not care how it is done. They do not understand the impact of having someone taking over; how it could impact them in a long term. They only want something to be done about it, and immediately.
Because they see only what they want to see, and they have no long term vision, they will not go out knocking on the doors. They will not call. They will not commit their time to any candidate. Nor will they donate a huge amount of their wages to any campaign, because they lack the passion. You need to have a passion to overcome your desire for things of world, and they do not have any passion for anything, but the comfort of their own lives.
Those pundits claim McCain should not “mollify” the wackos. They forgot that those wackos are wackos because they have committed themselves to the causes the Republican Party used to represent. The hard reality is that McCain will not survive without the party base. This is the very reason why I think McCain will lose the election this fall. He will fail to appeal to sufficient percentage of the Party base to get them out donating money and giving time to his campaign. He does not motivate the conversatives, because he does not share the same feelings for their causes. He does not excite the evangelicals because he does not share the same values as them. He will not get them to work for him, because he has nothing to offer to them directly, except for the hope that we could avoid the Obama/Clinton government take-over.
Joy Bischoff Says:
16 February 2008 at 2:25 pm.
SGS, I like to guest blog important articles and/or comments on Sundays to give me a break. I think what you have written here is important for people to understand. Would you mind me guest blogging this comment tomorrow? If yes, feel free to email me, contact information above, for any additions, changes etc. Thanks.
SGS Says:
16 February 2008 at 2:31 pm.
OK, I will try to send you something tonight. If I do not find the time, go ahead and use my comment.
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