15 February 2008
Capitulating
Posted by Joy Bischoff under: Constitution in Peril; Presidential Election 2008 .
Once again I am stealing comments, this time two from the same person to highlight them on a blog. I want to thank Chuck C. for his insightful comments.
Guest Blog by Charles Castleberry
Regarding the lady who said she is a Mitt supporter first and a Republican second, if I write in Mitt’s name on my ballot it will not be for that reason. It will be for the principals the Republican Party have represented historically. Ronald Reagan embodied those principals, John McCain has deserted most of them and us.
My core beliefs are not changed because the candidate says they should change. Look at John (follow me Grunts) McCain’s voting record and then look deep in your heart at your principals.
If you feel betrayed, abandoned, hoodwinked, bamboozled, forgotten, duped, confused, bewildered, perplexed and baffled as I do, then don’t feel bad about needing time to make up your mind.
Our situation is not as bad as the Free French during World War II. These were French fighters in World War II, who decided to continue fighting against Axis forces after the surrender of France and subsequent German occupation.
In 1940, General Charles de Gaulle was a member of the French cabinet during the Battle of France. As French defense forces were increasingly overwhelmed, De Gaulle found himself part of a small group of politicians who argued against a negotiated surrender to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. As these views were shared by the President of the Council, Paul Reynaud, De Gaulle was sent as an emissary to the United Kingdom, where he was when the French government collapsed.
De Gaulle was tried in absentia in Vichy France and sentenced to death for treason; he, on the other hand, regarded himself as the last remaining member of the legitimate Reynaud government able to exercise power, seeing the rise to power of Pétain as an unconstitutional coup.
TRANSLATION: Free French relates to Free Thinking Republicans. The McCain grunts equate to those who capitulated to the Germans and became Vichy.
Another post from Chuck C.:
We can play “follow the leader”, or look for ways to improve the situation. Alexander Hamilton wrote that men often miss simple and obvious chances to improve their situation because it is easier to follow the status quo.
Our present situation reminds me of a group of young people floating a river in a raft. They have just navigated some very rough water and are now floating on a very calm surface, so they lie down and just float with the current. An island comes into view and without thought, they continue with the main flow on the left side of the island. The current on the right side of the island seemed a little rougher and their present course looked much easier.
Before long the current quickened and someone said “what’s that sound?” One yelled, trying to be heard above the terrific roar, “Quick, let’s paddle to shore!” Too late. Their bodies, along with many more, were later found at the base of the falls.
Are we going to get our paddles out, or just peacefully float along? The smoothest water is on the left side of the island. Everybody else is going that way.
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28 Comments so far...
Matt Says:
15 February 2008 at 1:58 pm.
Seems like you love history, Chuck. Applying it to what is going on with us is helpful. Glad for your insight too. We don’t want to lay down and take it like most of the French did. Start paddling everybody.
Ghost Says:
15 February 2008 at 2:14 pm.
I wonder what my history prof would think if I tried to get him to see your point about France. Reading this after Mitt’s comment about us becoming like France is a little disturbing.
M.G. Says:
15 February 2008 at 2:34 pm.
Your raft story is powerful and puts things into perspective very well.
E.E. Says:
15 February 2008 at 3:13 pm.
I like all your adjectives, Chuck. Yup that’s about how I’ve been feeling.
Stumpy Says:
15 February 2008 at 3:28 pm.
If we follow them frenchwere fried.
Sorry got kicked milking this morning so Im lame today. Probably purty lame most days. Speaking of purty, I need a purty pickle to perk me up. Aint as good as CTH but this man dont do poetry.
Carrie Says:
15 February 2008 at 3:53 pm.
Stumpy did you and Pickles really get together?
E.E. Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:10 pm.
I copied some inspiring words of Abraham Lincoln that were used over at CoMMitted to Romney by someone to tell Ann Marie that she had done the right thing by endorsing McCain. There is a huge, glaring difference between this situation and Lincoln’s. HUGE DIFFERENCE? Do you see it??? He won the war first. He did not capitulate like the French did and say to the South, “we are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies”. Lincoln did not say that until freedom was won for the whole nation and the country unified. Why can’t people see?
““We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”
Now from the closing of his second Inaugural Address:
“With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.”
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:34 pm.
Dear John McCain,
I have hesitated backing you in your pursuit of the presidency, but I will consider voting for you if you commit to the following:
1. Commit to appoint strict constitutionalists to the Supreme Court.
2. Commit and defend a conservative taxation policy – reduced taxation with fiscally responsible spending.
3. Commit to reduce America’s dependence on foreign oil – Anwar, coal, nuclear.
4. Commit to finally secure the border and implement a fair guest worker program. Return to sender all “guests” who are driving without insurance, using healthcare with no insurance, etc.
5. Reduce or eliminate capital gains and inheritance taxes.
6. Free the military to do its duty in the war on terror and scare the hell out of any group that would consider messing with this country!
7. Implement policies to reduce and eliminate pork barrel spending.
8. Stand up to liberals who believe in entitlements. Implement healthcare policies based upon proven economic policies and principals (Dole is a good senator, but not good policy).
9. Stand up to the UN and show friend and foe alike that a strong and committed United States of America is the one best hope for a better, safer world.
10. Work with the democrats, but don’t be afraid to offer them your hand as you lead them to the right side of the aisle on important issues. Work with them, but stop crossing over in a spirit of bipartisanship.
I could go on, but this limited list is good for now. You’ve got six months.
Respectfully,
Charles A. Castleberry
Far Right Wacko
Mac Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:45 pm.
Santorum is on Hannity saying McCain is an honorable man. How can he say that after he lied about Mitt about not just one things but many? How can he say he is honorable when he says he is pro-life but the people of Wisconsin know differently? I could go on and on.
I loved the whole story about picking up the snake. Charles, how could we carry him to the presidency if he continues to lie, even if he agreed to every point when we know what he is? He will bite us. He is part of the establishment and he will do their bidding. I won’t pick up a snake because I know he has a forked tongue.
E.E. Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:50 pm.
Don’t worry, Mac. Even McCain couldn’t flip-flop on that many things. Chuck is in no danger of joining the crowd.
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:52 pm.
That’s right cause he’s the Wizard of Oz. He’s got a brain, a heart, and courage. The only thing I don’t know is if he has Toto too.
Stumpy Says:
15 February 2008 at 4:58 pm.
Sure we did Carrie. Thanks to cyberspace and my great imagination.
Now to serious business. Y’all want to why all these folks who had oodles of great logical reasons for not supporting McCain want to do it now. Easy. Everybody else is doing it.
Mac Says:
15 February 2008 at 5:10 pm.
Stumpy has spoken.
Chuck C Says:
15 February 2008 at 5:45 pm.
So, now the question continues to be… we live in a real world, not just this cyberspace. Is it more important for us to stick up for our principals to the bitter, lousy end. Or do we do our best to nudge the powers that be back to where they should be and stand our ground?
Do we take McCain with his lies and venom? Do we back Obama with his obvious faults and wrong ideas. Do we follow the shrill Mrs. Clinton? One of them will win.
Or is it more important to make a statement, knowing that whichever of those three wins, we will not be represented anyway. Do we back a winner just because he/she is a winner, or do we lose with honor?
I really don’t know the right answer for sure. But I think I am close… no I’m not. Does the proper stocking of the Supreme Court trump the misgivings for McCain. I still don’t know. Oh, the inhumanity of it all!
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 February 2008 at 6:28 pm.
We have talked a lot about the long run verses the short run. What is more important, moving to the middle and losing the power of the conservative base, the only group who protect the foundation? Or is it more important to go for the short term goals and let our children shed their blood to gain back the lost hill? Each must decide for themselves. It is a personal decision.
Mac Says:
15 February 2008 at 7:19 pm.
I’m in shock right about now. I better not say anything I might regret. I need a beer.
M.G. Says:
15 February 2008 at 7:24 pm.
I think I’ll join you, Mac. I guess I knew everybody would have different ways of thinking but to have the guy that wrote the stuff on this blog turn around and question himself when he seemed to really get it, it’s hard to take. Makes me feel shook up again. Maybe if he read the article below the icon called The Secret of the Political Spectrum he wouldn’t be confused any more. I’ve been reading a lot this afternoon and it all makes great sense to me. Well, it is his choice in the end. Timing is a little strange though if you ask me.
Jeezer Says:
15 February 2008 at 7:43 pm.
I guess the title to this blog is accurate. McCain is a war hawk and he would get us into Iran. He already said that. Then Russia and China would attack us. I think it is significant that the top contributors to Ron Paul are military like it says in the article below:
Presidential candidate Ron Paul’s avocation of a humble foreign policy and his determined anti-war stance has once again been proven to be extremely popular amongst American servicemen and women as newly released figures reveal the top three contributors to the Congressman’s campaign are from the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force respectively.
The figures have been posted at http://www.opensecrets.org, the website for the Federal Election Commission, the body that oversees campaign donations.
“No matter how you measure it, Dr. Paul has the support of our nation’s brave servicemen and women,” said Kent Snyder, Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman. “His message of a strong national defense, and only going to war with a declaration of war – as mandated by the Constitution – resonates with those who risk their lives to defend that Constitution.”
http://www.infowars.net/articles/february2008/150208RPaul.htm
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:02 pm.
We need to be careful about being too hard on people. This is a hard decision and we definitely do not want to become a hate McCain site. I believe him to be less honest than a wolf since he is hiding in sheep’s clothing so I will point out the dangers I see from his positions and being an establishment insider. That is my right. But I do not want us driving away people who see it differently. Chuck loves the Constitution and wants to preserve it like we do. It would actually be sad if we were so militant that McCain supporters felt they could never come here. We are about finding common ground after all.
The Realist Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:14 pm.
This is so great. Last night it was me. Now it is Chuck who if I remember right called me a sheep last night. Baaaa. One by one the rest of you will see the light.
Terrie Soberg Says:
15 February 2008 at 8:32 pm.
Chuck C., you made such strong comments in “Capitulating.” Why waverest thou now? Yes, it is better to stick to our principles. We are promised that the end will not be bitter but glorious. Now, the pathway to get there, not so much. Yet, “men are, that they might have joy.” That doesn’t mean to have joy until 9/11, or Hurricane Katrina, or when McCain or Obama become president.
In Ephesians 4:14, it says, “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.” Does this description sound familiar in today’s world? We also know not the hearts of the men in our own country. (Although it is becoming easier and easier to see.) This site is about bringing to light the PRINCIPLES our freedom is based upon. We must not abandon those principles.
You stated, “Are we going to get our paddles out, or just peacefully float along? The smoothest water is on the left side of the island. Everybody else is going that way.” I am sure that you have paddled a canoe or two in your lifetime. It can be very hard work, especially trying to move upstream, or to avoid an impending waterfall. The most helpful thing in a case like that is to have some assistance. That’s where our website comes in. So many people are capitulating. They don’t know where to turn. We want to give them an anchor in the storm.
Joy wrote in her post “Now I Understand” this paragraph:
Now this brings us back full circle to the hub of the wheel. What do we hold to? In our personal lives we hold to God and His word. In our political lives we hold to the values embodied in the Constitution that stem from God’s word. Words on paper that reflect invisible principles are much harder to hold to than a man whom we can see and touch. This will test what we are made of.
We will be accountable before God how we use our precious privilege to vote. We must be strong. We have to help each other. Mitt Romney did what he had to politically to be able to run in 2012. Maybe he will even have a chance to be VP now. But who will he vote for when he is alone in the voting booth? Only he and God will know for sure. The same goes for each of us.
Go back and read Joy’s post, “Now I Understand.” Study it, learn it, pray about it. Yes, there will be a test!
Cavetrollhead Says:
15 February 2008 at 10:31 pm.
I think the struggle that Chuck is having is knowing that life is about choosing the lesser of two evils. We do it all the time. We have to do it sometimes. I think the Bible teaches that too. Sometimes we must stand on principle and sometime we must choose the lesser of two evils.
The question seems to be for us, do we choose McCain (or someone else) because he or she is the lesser of two evils? Or do we stick to our principles? I can totally understand why someone would want McCain. I don’t want to see Iraq collapse into genocidal chaos for example.
Regardless of weather we should have gone to war in Iraq, the point now is how to get out, causing the least amount of carnage. If one candidate offers that assurance, that is a compelling attraction. After all, remember that when we exited Viet Nam after the Thet offensive, we did so strictly for so called “US interests” but the way we exited, left genocide in our wake. Millions of people were slaughtered by the Viet Kong. That was awful. I am afraid of Obama doing this. So do I stubbornly stick to my guns, or do I hold my nose and vote McCain?
So far I have decided to stick to my principles and NOT vote McCain. But this in itself is the lesser of two evils. In so doing I turn my back on Iraqi citizens who desperately need security before the US troops withdraw.
I reject McCain because The United States of America is the last, best hope for mankind for generations to come- worldwide. I will refuse to vote for McCain because I believe that if he wins, constitutional conservatives will be disenfranchised for good. That is right- if the Washington republican establishment succeeds in putting a moderate into the presidency, conservatives will lose all political power in the party. Where will we go then? Are we conservatives enough in numbers to succeed in a third party? I don’t think so.
If McCain gains the presidency, the US as we know it may cease to exist because voting for McCain just slows the inevitable migration to the left. We will be the frog that got boiled slowly. Conservatives will become a hiss and a byword. Freedoms last bastion, the United States will decay when conservatives last bastion, the republican party rejects conservatives!
Roy Bischoff Says:
16 February 2008 at 12:29 am.
Before Reagan things were getting bad for conservatives. It may be possible that conservatives can survive a McCain presidency. I am not saying to vote for him just that if he gets in it might not be the end of life as we know it. Whoever gets into office this term we will probably not like. Sometimes we need some contrast to see things more clearly.
After the 9/11 incident patriotism became popular again. Having been raised to be patriotic and being disturbed by the growing lack of patriotism I can remember how amazed and pleased I was to see a grand revival of patriotism.
Though we like to think of things as all or nothing I think we need to do what we can to promote our cause but we cannot overreact to things that we see happening. I always try to take a long term perspective. I also hold on to faith and hope. However we think of Him, there is a being out there who was behind the foundation of our country, which exists at least in part so that people could worship Him as they pleased. He will continue to help preserve this nation as long as we are willing to continue to fight to uphold His principles as embodied in the Constitution and the Word of God.
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 February 2008 at 12:38 am.
You are right Roy. I for one may be over-reacting. I am just trying to present an argument more than say that I am sure of my conclusions. I am just trying to make a case and in reality, I am kind of in Chucks position of uncertainty. But for now, I am advocating Not voting for McCain for the above reasons.
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 February 2008 at 1:13 am.
Hey Mac,
I noticed you are in the know about McCain v Wisconsin Right to Life. Did you see my blog on that a while back or did you hear it from a different source? I have been puzzled about how slowly that history is getting around.
Michael Medved tried to shoot it down as an issue but if you really look into it, it WAS, indeed an issue. McCain chose cronyism, or his own pride, or at the very least the unconstitutional McCain/Feingold, over Life. He prosecuted his law from the legislature! I could go on. . . . You know the US supreme court shot down the application of McCain-Feingold, in McCain v WRTL as unconstitutional?
Again, I wonder why this story hasn’t gotten legs. It is of interest on so many levels. It is a microcosm of why conservative have a bad case of McCain Disdain.
Mac Says:
16 February 2008 at 12:12 pm.
CTH,
I am pretty sure I read that in your blog but I had also read it somewhere else first. It is such a farce to say McCain is pro-life when his record isn’t always supporting those words out of his mouth. Then people talk about Mitt being pro-abortion before and how bad that is and we can’t trust him. BUT he never supported abortion in any of his actions as governor. Actions are suppose to speak louder than words but not when we have the press screaming in our face. They drown out everything.
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 February 2008 at 12:37 pm.
Good point, actions speak louder than words. Romney was a pro life governor in deed not just words. And he did it in a Super pro-choice, liberal state, and managed to remain a strong leader afterwards. Oh well, our lips move but they can’t hear what we say.
Yea it is slow around here.
Jan W. Says:
16 February 2008 at 1:12 pm.
Hey, people. I agree with you guys. I am afraid we may have drove Chuck C. away.
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