25 March 2008
We Must Find a Way
Posted by Joy Bischoff under: World Affairs .
Most of us agree that whether or not it was a good idea to initially go into Iraq, the fact is that we did. Since we can’t change the past, the best thing to do is go forward and do the best we can. Memories of the massacre of the killing fields when we withdrew from Vietnam makes most of us want to find a way to stop that from happening again.
The problem as I have seen it is that if we appear to dig in for the long haul in Iraq, if there is even the appearance of occupation, then we will find ourselves in a quagmire with no measurable way to victory and withdrawal. This will provide a spark to ignite much more extremism and terrorism.
Shi’ite cleric al-Sadr had called off violence against the Americans in order to give us a chance to show we wanted to defeat Al Qaeda, end the job and leave their country. The surge was successful in lowering violence but besides that, there doesn’t seem to be significant movement toward finding a way to wrap things up. So now the cleric has lost patience and the violence is on again.
John McCain’s words about being willing to stay a hundred years in Iraq if that is what it takes, cannot please the Iraqi people who see their land as sacred and the Americans as infidels. They will never accept occupation. It is one thing to try and win, it is another to appear hawkish without a clear vision for toward an end.
It has been five years. We must find a way to complete the mission.
Iraqi forces fight Mehdi Army in Basra
ASRA, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi security forces battled the Mehdi Army militia in Basra on Tuesday in a drive to win control of the southern oil city, but violence and unrest spread to Baghdad and other cities.
Police and health workers said at least 12 people were killed in the fighting in districts of central and northern Basra where Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mehdi Army has a strong presence.
In a statement read out by a senior aide on Tuesday, Sadr called on Iraqis to stage sit-ins all over Iraq and said he would declare a “civil revolt” if attacks by U.S. and Iraqi security forces continued. He also threatened a “third step,” but said it was too early to announce what it would be.
26 Comments so far...
Hank Says:
25 March 2008 at 1:05 pm.
This is a bad turn. It really makes me nervous. I can’t see how this is going to turn out. I agree that we can’t leave a vacuum over there though.
Mac Says:
25 March 2008 at 1:19 pm.
It’s great to say all this but the question is, How? It is hard to second guess an enemy and one like this is new and confusing. Our armed forces are doing the best they can. Criticism is so easy from the arm chair.
The Realist Says:
25 March 2008 at 1:57 pm.
We shouldn’t worry about what people think of our country. We have to show strength and make them respect us. It is going to take a long time because the Iraqis really aren’t equipped to take care of this mess. We have a responsibility to finish what we started no matter how long it takes. I think that was basically all that McCain was trying to say.
Cameron Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:27 pm.
We can’t just stay there with no workable plan to turn the country back over to the Iraqis. That’s just being bull headed. Why is it that people think America should have endless finances to support all the world’s injustices and should be able to police all the problems in the world?
I wanted us to go and take out Saddam. I thought we should have done it the first time. But seriously people, we have to have a plan to finish this. What sense does it make to plan on staying there permanently unless it is just the oil we are after? This could be solved by drilling our own oil.
Jeezer Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:30 pm.
For those of us that believe the whole thing was a set up to get us into the middle east for not only the oil, but to try and control those rebellious arabs who don’t want to be part of the new world order, we just can’t feel good about being there. We don’t believe our government even wants to find a way to win and then leave. We believe it was the plan all along to establish a permanent base there. We believe John McCain knows this.
Joy Bischoff Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:40 pm.
Mac, our soldiers are incredible. It isn’t their fault that this thing isn’t getting wrapped up. I think Mitt was right that there should be benchmarks. Imagine if you had a child you were teaching to clean the kitchen. You told that child you would help and even mostly do the job until they showed they were ready to take on the job alone. How long do you think the child would take to get ready to take it on alone? Forever!!! There is so much infighting with the Iraqi government that they are distracted and not as concerned about taking over because the Americans will do it. Benchmarks, held to firmly are the answer but they would need to be kept secret for obvious reasons.
We would need to be firm and they would have to be responsible for the consequences if they continued to be more interested in their infighting and personal power plays and personal enrichment than putting their country’s needs first.
The Realist Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:50 pm.
Time tables undermine our military.
Joy Bischoff Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:52 pm.
Realist, no time tables do not undermine our military. Read history. There have always been benchmarks. Those are private goals among the military strategists about how to go about winning. Wars weren’t meant to be fought just for the sake of fighting. It is about winning. Ask any coach. A game plan is necessary and without it there is no winning, it is just endless pain.
Pickles Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:56 pm.
I totally agree Joy. You guys need to remember that us young people are watching. Even conservatives like me want to believe our leaders aren’t war mongers but we need to see the evidence. We need to know we aren’t really planning on being in Iraq forever and that we are making the Iraqi government step up to the plate and take control. No game plan, no victory, everybody knows that.
Mac Says:
25 March 2008 at 2:58 pm.
All right I see your point. I’m glad you think the soldiers are doing a great job because they really are. The bench marks absolutely have to stay private but sure they need them. Maybe they have them but if they are secret we wouldn’t know about it.
Joy Bischoff Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:00 pm.
Mac, they probably do and the surge was a good move but we need to see more than a decrease in violence, we need to see the Iraqis making strides to take over. And they absolutely need to let al Sadr in on the general plan or how can they expect him to believe we don’t plan on permanent occupation? With his militia on the move again, things could get very bad.
The Realist Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:02 pm.
I just don’t think criticism is helpful. We don’t understand the situation and we definitely don’t understand how Arabs think.
Joy Bischoff Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:05 pm.
Realist, I learned a lot about how Arabs think in school. I was a Middle Eastern Studies major and had Arab professors and got to know Arab students and carefully studied their culture. This is why I wrote a paper warning about where this would all go right before the war began. Everything I predicted happened because I do know enough about them.
As far as criticism, if we were living in a dictatorship I would agree. But we are in a participatory government and we need to let them know how we feel about how they are doing. It’s our job.
The Realist Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:06 pm.
Joy, I am sure there are plenty of others who are experts in the middle east who would disagree with you so I don’t feel like I just have to automatically say you are right.
Joy Bischoff Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:08 pm.
Of course you don’t. This is called a discussion, we each give our opinions and people read those opinions then they make up their own mind. Actually, I wish I had a better answer to how to move forward. It is complicated and difficult and I don’t mean to make it sound simplistic.
Stumpy Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:10 pm.
I dont gotta agree with the teacher neither. I only do cause I got a brain that works.
Pickles Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:13 pm.
Yeah Stumpy!
You have a brain, I have a heart and your lion, I mean cat, has courage. We belong together.
Jesse Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:20 pm.
Good blog Joy.
Stumpy Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:23 pm.
Pickles honey - I get the ruby slippers. I look good in sparkles.
Pickles Says:
25 March 2008 at 3:27 pm.
They match your sparkling personality.
Matt Says:
25 March 2008 at 7:33 pm.
Whether or not there are middle east experts who will agree or disagree with Joy, it seems pretty clear to me that we are having a hard time figuring out how to end the war. We need to do it. I’m worried that ending the surge will put us back to where we were and nothing much will have been accomplished except more time has passed. I wish the president would tell us what our objective is. Is it to get the Iraqi government ready to govern? If so, what will it take? I have supported to war effort but I am beginning to question what we really want over there.
Ghost Says:
25 March 2008 at 7:35 pm.
I guess I’ve just wanted to be patriotic and not really question Iraq. I still want that emotionally but intellectually that isn’t honest. Five years is a long time to try and help them set up a government that can run itself. It won’t take off smoothly. If we are going to wait for perfection then it will never happen but they seem a very long way right now from being able to take over. I like the idea of benchmarks and telling them they have to come so far in so long. Something has to change.
Nalvy Says:
26 March 2008 at 1:26 pm.
Now I myself am pretty young but I can see that staying in Iraq is not something that should be done for a super long time… I believe Joy is right and not only because the woman knows a lot more than most people I know but it is because I myself know people from the middle east and they have told me about how Americans are viewed over there.
I know people don thave to agree…life would be boring if we all did…but please just look at what is going on over there and over here and THAN make your decision about the war.
T. Fan Says:
26 March 2008 at 2:40 pm.
Nalvy, it is good to know how young people look at this. You are our future and we need to remember that.
Cavetrollhead Says:
26 March 2008 at 8:30 pm.
Wow. what a longy. I think that this is a good development. The Shiite leader is fighting a Shiite army funded by Iran. This looks to me to be a step toward handing off the security to Iraq. The fact that the Shiites are willing to fight their own to secure the country seems positive to me.
And I have to echo something the realist said. Worrying about the perception of the Iraqis has help caused this quagmire I think. They respect force more than anything there. Trying to convince them we respect them and care about them seems naive. They don’t care if we care, and they won’t respect us if we respect them. “winning the hearts and minds” was a mistake. I was all for it before. Force is what they understand. That is unfortunately their culture right now. Few and far between are those who are open to friendship with us.
I wish I were wrong.
Ghost Says:
26 March 2008 at 11:18 pm.
I agree to a point. Our military has to be strong and not show any back up or they won’t respect us because they do respect strength. But there is also some reasoning that has to happen. If they think we want to permanently occupy their country then they will eventually turn most of the people against us. No one in other countries would trust us because they would question our motives. So to me there is a difference of wanting to win and wanting to be occupiers.
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