15 March 2008
About Being Open Minded
Posted by Roy Bischoff under: Constitution in Peril; Judaeo-Christian Values Under Attack .
There are a few things that I would like to point out. First, I hope the people that visit this site can have an open mind. If you wait to believe something until it is “mainstream” you will miss the boat because “mainstream” is not about what is factual it is about who has control of the agenda. We live in the information age. Find information on all sides of an issue and see if you can find something that is credible. It is a sad fact that people generally believe what they want to believe. Also our political socialization has much to do with what we believe. Every group we belong to influences us. If we think that we are independent thinkers but don’t acknowledge these influences on our thought processes then we are fooling ourselves. We have to know that something influences us and then try to look at other points of view. I don’t say that we abandon what we believe in we just need to take an honest look at why we believe what we do. Go back and read the blog on dogmas if you don’t remember it.
Second, don’t start throwing labels around–that is another blog worth rereading. Being comfortable with using labels is a pretty good sign that you are not as open minded as you think you are.
Third, this site is about having discussions. Reasonable people can disagree on a great many things. It would be nice if we can agree to disagree about things but don’t get excited about things especially if you haven’t looked into it first. There is a lot that I don’t know. When I come across new information I try to reserve judgment until I can educate myself on that issue. Many people either believe or disbelieve anything new to them. The believers can be duped into believing many false things. The disbelievers can miss out on important truths. I think the fictional character Sherlock Holmes is a good example for us. He was able to sort through what both believers and disbelievers told him to find the truth which was often something quite surprising but usually because the reader believed what should have been disbelieved and vice-versa.
The last thing I would like to say right now is that it is okay to have an emotional response to things that we read. But when we respond emotionally then we usually get into trouble. I know that we all feel passionately about different things but we have to let other people have their own passions. Hopefully, we can have more of ratiocination and less of dogmas and labels.
67 Comments so far...
Ghost Says:
15 March 2008 at 12:44 am.
Thank you.
Hank Says:
15 March 2008 at 1:01 am.
Roy I am very impressed with what you wrote here. You sound like a very wise man. Most sites don’t worry about trying to create unity so they don’t care so much if people offend each other or not. I feel bad for you people who are trying to balance that with us being able to speak freely, or write freely. Fear is a natural reaction to what is happening, I can understand that. I feel that sometimes when I see what is really happening out there. Now that we have learned so much about labels it would be a shame to use labels to pressure people into not feeling like they can have open discussions.
Cavetrollhead Says:
15 March 2008 at 1:32 am.
Good stuff Roy.
But what does ratiocination mean?
Roy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:18 am.
Ratiocination is defined as the process of reasoning or thinking about things logically.
Terrie Soberg Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:46 am.
I apologize for not posting or participating in discussions much lately. The OB doctor put me on bedrest until some problems I’m having resolve themselves. I shouldn’t even be sitting up to write this, but I want to interject some thoughts here. A huge thank you to Roy and Joy for their diligence!
I have read through the posts and comments leading up to and including Saving the Apple.
Our entire site is based on the principles supporting the Constitution and is called, “In GOD We Trust.” We therefore cannot leave God out of the picture. I very much believe that the Lord gives me inspiration in many ways. He helps me to sort out truth from error. He warns me in times of danger. He prompts me to action or inaction as the case may be. He even sometimes confirms to me things that I would really rather not believe.
In the Surveillance State post, I commented on the scripture, we “know not the hearts of men in our own land.” Now, here is another one: “Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.”
Joy and I decided when we started this blog, that we would have to venture into very uncomfortable territory at times if we are to properly warn our neighbors. I started learning about the New World Order almost fifteen years ago, when it was still very secretive and definitely a conspiracy theory. I didn’t talk about it much, certainly not to my “mainstream” friends and family. I learned all I could about the three legs of the NWO and then I watched to see if things progressed as they were supposed to. I saw a major TV campaign on reducing the population, which is part of the One Child Per Family leg. I saw different colored money enter into our currency. I saw NAFTA accepted. I saw the European Union formed with its common currency. I saw a major push for multiculturalism in schools. I saw news of the many meetings of the G-7 and then G-8. All these were part of the One World Government leg. I heard Bush 41 talk about “1000 points of light” which is a buzz phrase of New Age and Secular Humanism, part of the One World Religion leg. If you think these things sound crazy now, imagine how they would have sounded back in 1995. Nevertheless, these things are happening all around us. The NAFTA Superhighway is routed through my state on the way to Canada. The SPP is openly written about. Vicente Fox bragged about the Amero on national television, American television. The Fed is a huge part of this scheme. Have you looked at the campaign to take away our right to bear arms? Go back and read about Hitler. Read 1984–George Orwell missed it by a few years, but he had many things right on. Don’t you love how there are cameras EVERYWHERE? Well, fortunately they aren’t in our homes yet, but California did try to make it a law that the government could control the thermostats in people’s homes.
It’s time to wake up! I have not even written about some of the things that are in the works yet to come. With all that has already come to pass, I have no reason to think these other things will not happen as well. You would really be freaked, and maybe think I am nuts. “You know not the hearts of the men in your own land.” Maybe we can’t do anything to change the course set. We have to at least try. If nothing else, “He who is prepared shall not fear.” One of the most important parts of preparedness is mental preparedness. Who will be ready to stand up and preserve the Constitution? And how will it be preserved if we don’t even know what is in it? We have homework to do, people. We need to know the Constitution backwards and forwards, and then teach it to our children and grandchildren. Knowledge is power.
Think what you may about me, but consider yourselves warned! I’m back to bed!
Sharon Anderson Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:36 am.
Wise comments, Roy. Three cheers, Terrie. Thanks for your warnings and your willingness to wake us up, …and take care of yourself!
Carrie Says:
15 March 2008 at 12:08 pm.
Oh Terrie that is so exciting that you are pregnant. Be careful and treat that baby right!
Roy I think you are very wise to. Thanks for your calming words.
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 1:06 pm.
I think Roy did an excellent job on this blog. I agree with every word, even the big one he had to explain to me. I also agree with everything Terrie had to say. For me personally, I have decided not to jump in on things that I know will be so controversial that it will offend a large number of readers. I’m willing to offend a few because some people want to pretend all is well as Isaiah said many would in the last days. What I won’t do is stifle conversation unless people become very rude and disrespectful. We have identified the principles we want to run by and now we will let you govern yourselves. Police each other if you want to do that. We won’t, unless it gets really out of hand. I don’t feel good about being too controlling.
If we say this site can only be for people who don’t believe anything that some would consider fringe, then we will be in effect saying that the unity that we want in the conservative movement must only be for those who don’t believe in hardly any conspiracies. We will be splitting the movement. We want to learn to be tolerant of different dogmas, to be inclusive, not exclusive. I want to end with scriptures from the Book of Mormon, so forgive me all those who would be offended by that. Just skip this is you want to. It is about secret combinations. Mormons really have no excuse for not knowing of their existence and of their entrenchment in governments. Those who wrote the Book of Mormon were shown our day and wrote it for us and strongly warned us that these secret organizations do exist who want to overthrow the freedoms of all nations. The same things happened in Noah’s day. Many ancient manuscripts that have been found in the last century show that they lived under a one world government, ruled by power hungry people. It stifled freedom to the point where children stood no chance of real progression. So here are the verses from The Book of Mormon:
Ether, chapter 8:18-26
18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.
21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.
22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.
Pickles Says:
15 March 2008 at 1:26 pm.
I’m not a Mormon but I read that stuff anyway. It was sweet. It really explains what is going on. Terrie I liked what you wrote and Roy to. Since I’m your cyber neighbor I am glad you warned me. I’ve learned so much.
Stumpy Says:
15 March 2008 at 1:31 pm.
Okay last time I wanna be serious. Its depressing.
Cave buddy, I think the whole rolling the eyes at conspiracy thing yer talking about depends on where you live. Where I live if someone said they trusted the fed then everybody would roll there eyes about that. You must be in a place where people are different than us.
CindyL. Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:01 pm.
Same here, Stumpy. I don’t think I know very many people who trust the fed at all. I was home schooled and I studied a lot about this. I want to share some of my favorite quotes by presidents and by the famous and well respected Professor Quigley.
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks … will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
- Thomas Jefferson, hundreds of years before the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.
“The Money Power preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy.”
- Abraham Lincoln
“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”
– Woodrow Wilson, The New Freedom,
“The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences.”
– Professor Carroll Quigley, Tragedy & Hope, 1966
“The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.
This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations.
Each central bank . . . sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by sub- sequent economic rewards in the business world.
Peter Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:10 pm.
YES!!!
Cave, this post by Cindy L. is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Home schooling is dangerous because most people who do it are fanatics. There are no controls on what they teach and most of those kids are learning conspiracy theories. Some people really shouldn’t have the right to work outside a system that has proven its stability. It is people like this who will be the domestic terrorists that we have to watch or we will have more Oklahoma City bombings. It is exactly because we have this kind of fanaticism that we have to have more laws in place than we use to. People are out of control and we need experts who have studied the best way to save humanity that we need to listen to. The survival of our planet depends on reigning in the crazies.
You can always tell when you hit a nerve of truth. People get mad at you just like these people have been getting mad at you and me. I am very sure there are lots of others who are just reading at this site who feel exactly like you and I do.
Stumpy Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:24 pm.
Peter Peter pumpkin eater
had his freedom
but he couldnt keep her
they put him in a pumpkin shell
he thought all was well
he didnt recognize hell
M.G. Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:32 pm.
Good job Cindy. I would bet that Peter didn’t actually read all of your quotes. What I want to know is if Joy doesn’t want to talk about this any more if she is not sure the fed is a danger and thinks it could be just a conspiracy theory. If it is a real danger then that means it is one of if not the greatest danger to our freedoms and this is part of what we are supposed to do here, identify threats to our freedoms. It kind of sounds like you are so scared of offending that you don’t have to the guts to stand up to people who haven’t taken the time to look into this.
Peter, you are a socialist. You may be conservative in some of your views but you don’t understand or appreciate freedom. I am policing your comments. Do not pass GO, go directly to jail, or to Stumpy’s pumkin shell which I think he means stands for the political hell waiting for us if we don’t preserve the constitution.
Pickles Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:36 pm.
Peter I don’t hate you. I don’t want us to end up like so many of the Europeans who have quit thinking for themselves and just put everything into the hands of their socialist government. Look what happened to religion when they did that. They just gave up on everything except for just getting by. Mitt said we were going to end up like France. He is so freaking right. It is thinking like yours that will take us there. It is way more dangerous than conspiracy theories.
E.E. Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:43 pm.
Secularism is creating despair and that is creating school shooters and fanaticism. Things like this didn’t hardly ever happen when we were a country based on God. Terrie talked about keeping God in our learning process. That is right on target.
Carrie Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:43 pm.
Cave you aren’t like Peter. You love freedom, I can tell. Don’t let him manipulate you.
Hank Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:52 pm.
Joy, I think that was a fair question by M.G. You have wrote about the people who stayed quiet about Hitler and somebody else mentioned that yesterday. You said you didn’t want to have regrets about staying quiet. It is so right that if the Fed is a danger to freedom then we have to acknowledge it. I live in Boston. We all know about smoke filled back rooms and how things are really run. My friends are like Stumpys. They would roll there eyes if someone said they trusted the Fed.
Matt Says:
15 March 2008 at 2:54 pm.
Peter, you need to learn which party likes a nanny state. It isn’t the Republicans.
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 3:25 pm.
Fair question guys. What I was trying to say is that I want my focus to stay on what I think is the very most important thing; finding points of unity and teaching about the Constitution. We do want to identify threats but I want to personally do that in a way that doesn’t drive away the majority. This site cannot do everything that is important politically. So we have to pick and choose where we think we can do the most good. That is what I’m doing. That said, it is important that we don’t shy away from what we really think if we are asked. Terrie spoke very clearly and well about what she believes and I agree with her. So, just in case I wasn’t clear, I will answer your question, M.G.
I could go on at great length about why I am personally absolutely positive that the Federal Reserve is a crucial part of the globalist plan to consolidate power into a few hands as Roy showed with his article on the political spectrum. But I will just give one example I have given before. When preparing my report on NAFTA, I read a book put out by the Council on Foreign Relations. The CFR was started by Colonel House, the man who President Wilson called his second self, and who guided through the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. This book explained in great detail how they would create a European Union, then later a North American Union, followed by an Asian Union. Then they would put the three together into a One World Government. They explained how they would do this through financial manipulation and using currency. Now how could anyone tell me this is only a theory when I read this book myself and have since seen the goals being implemented. I have read the history also of the European Council of Princes that was put together shortly after WWII, in 1946 with the stated purpose of bringing Europe into basically one nation. They are the group that takes credit for the European Union and they are the royalty of Europe who says that bloodline has the right to rule, made up of 33 royal houses. Okay I have to stop because I could go on.
Peter Says:
15 March 2008 at 3:31 pm.
I believe in freedom also. In addition to the normal ones, I want freedom from conspiracy theorists.
Matt Says:
15 March 2008 at 3:33 pm.
Peter that is difference between you and me. I will fight to the death for your right to disagree with me but you don’t want me to have the right to disagree with you.
Roy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 3:40 pm.
I just wanted to add a little to this dialog. Many people who begin looking into what people label “conspiracy theories” end up going off the deep end. There are many things that I believe and many more things that I think that are possibly true-the jury is still out so to speak. The question is what do we do about it. I don’t go ranting about things that people are not ready to hear. That does no good. I think it is enough to know that there are people who want the world to be much more ordered than what is compatible with freedom and to stand ready to use what influence you have to resist the loss of freedoms. This can be done by supporting people for elected office that believe in the Constitution and in preserving our freedom. It can also be done through reasoned communication with people that respect you enough to listen to you. We can do little about the people who are trying to take away freedoms but we can create a ground-swell of people who want to hold onto their basic freedoms.
Mac Says:
15 March 2008 at 4:07 pm.
This has been really hard for me. I have stayed out of it because I wasn’t well enough informed to know what was true. I’ve been reading things about it from both sides of the opinion. I have to say there is a lot more evidence that the fed is bad than that it is good. I guess a lot of it really is history and lots of sources cited. I don’t like thinking how I’ve been fooled. But I also agree with Roy and Joy that we should focus on things that will give us the best chance of making a difference and this probably isn’t one we can do a lot about.
Jesse Says:
15 March 2008 at 5:23 pm.
You know I have read through everything and I don’t think Cave did anything wrong. He brought up the fed so if that were it then it would be weird for him to complain about it being too fringe for the site. But he later said he wished he wouldn’t have brought it up. So no big deal. Maybe he and I differ as to what constitutes fringe since I agree with most of you that my friends and family all know the fed is bad, but that is just the how many worms in the apple thing. He is a great guy and shouldn’t be made to feel like he did anything wrong.
Saddened Says:
15 March 2008 at 8:22 pm.
Maybe this is so hard to get right because we are trying something that is new. Does anyone know if there is anything else out there that is just like this? The idea of finding common points of agreement and still allow discussion about various opinions makes it hard but it something we have to do. If we don’t then it doesn’t say much for the chance for the whole conservative movement to be able to do it. The people on this site are really great but there is a little stress because we are trying to work.
Anon88 Says:
15 March 2008 at 8:45 pm.
It is fascinating to watch this process shake itself out. Saddened, you came to the core of the problem. I hope this little community does find a way to move forward. Overcoming the fear of labels like Cavetrollhead is struggling with, does not come easily. Even with his anonymity, it is a complete change of ideology to associate outwardly with conspiracy theorists. This has been greatly complicated by 9/11. There is a natural instinct to shy away from anything that smacks of conspiracy because one is afraid that any taint of it will make people see them as a 9/11 Truther. They don’t want to be painted with the same brush. So controlling the masses through the use of labels has actually become far more effective. We’ll see what happens here. I hope for the best but it’s anyone’s guess. Don’t forget that there a lot of readers watching how this turns out.
Cameron Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:16 pm.
Professor, I have really invested myself into this place. I would be very discouraged if it failed. I want to believe we won’t break apart as conservatives and that we can even reach out in respect if not in agreement with liberals. How else do we have hope. Thanks for the things you said.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:32 pm.
Labels, as mentioned here, are curious. Because of the Political Spectrum we have conservative democrats, moderate republicans, liberal democrats, independents, etc. - many of whom would like to reach a consensus if possible. I guess if there is a label I would like to see applied, it would be “Constitutionalist”. Liberal, moderate or conservative - if we can learn together on this site what passes muster, we can move forward without fear. I am glad to read Cave’s questions, and also feel for Peter’s cynicism.
Keep the info coming and keep us aware of threats to our sovereignty. These discussions can help us ferret out where we might stand on important issues by allowing advocacy for any point of view. Hopefully the truth will win out, but if we choose to take different sides on certain issues, it will not be done in ignorance.
Ghost Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:46 pm.
Chuck, what you wrote intrigues me. “…but if we choose to take different sides on certain issues, it will not be done in ignorance”.
I’ve been thinking about this all day. I think that people panic a little here because most of us realize we are an experiment about whether people who want to preserve the constitution can find a way to unite and do that. It isn’t that we think we can do it just from this site, but can we succeed in enough unified purpose to give us hope that the over all movement will make it?
What I have learned over the last two days is this. While I want to have a right to my own ideas, I very badly want to see this community hold together. The thought of you or Cave leaving makes me feel a little sick to my stomach because I like you guys and because I want to believe in this experiment. I want to be positive about the future of all of us. We know it is going to be hard but if we are determined to win in the end by preserving our union, then I won’t give in to despair. We all have to be careful about being too touchy, and that definitely includes me.
Anon88 Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:55 pm.
Society as a whole used to be a lot more tolerant. We have become clannish and quick to anger. The first step in overcoming those tendencies is to become aware that this has happened and that we have to fight that and get back to allowing others to differ with us without seeing them as a threat of some kind.
Although I am a conservative, it bothers me when I hear so many fellow conservatives treat liberals like enemies. Their attitude is that they won’t stop until they have converted everyone to conservatism and until then they will treat them like idiots. How realistic is it that this will happen? How is this different than some Muslims who believe all mankind must be forced to convert? Chuck has a great point which I have also read elsewhere here in some of the blogs. If this was a ‘hate the libs’ site, I wouldn’t be interested in coming here.
Ghost, you are right. We do sense this is an important experiment and I think that subconsciously, if we see a threat to the group, we become too uptight and forget that being inclusive is supposed to be what we are about. Becoming aware of this from great comments like yours will help us get it right.
Thanks to both of you.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 9:57 pm.
Ghost, good points. I really think (to use a label) Elitist Liberals would consider people who populate a site like this as “Conservative Ignorant Hicks” who should be discounted entirely. While, in truth, it is they who swallow party lines hook, line and sinker. Notice, I did not say “Liberals”, I said “Elitist Liberals”. It is they who know what is right for everyone else while looking down from their lofty perches. I mind much less a person of good heart who is ‘liberal’ for charitable reasons. Many people choose to be liberal, because they THINK the philosophies trumpeted by liberals will save the earth and provide a better life for the down trodden. If they only knew the truth. I don’t question their hearts, just their reasoning…
We here are not all automatons who accept everything without question. This is better than most classrooms in any university.
Stumpy Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:00 pm.
I need a hug.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:01 pm.
Can I kiss your … instead?
Stumpy Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:03 pm.
Schmmmackck
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:04 pm.
Oops, I didn’t mean to hit ‘SUBMIT’.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:05 pm.
By the way… I was at a training with a doctor today and he told me a joke. Is there anywhere on this site where it is OK to post a joke?
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:12 pm.
I really appreciate everything that’s been said here. We are swimming in deep water and trying to find our feet. Chuck, one of the things I’ve been concerned about and have had a rough draft blog of for over a month, is the liberal problem. In my blog (that I should probably finish since you brought it up) I wrote that I am sure it is offensive how we are always going on here about the liberal socialist agenda. I believe most liberals do not consider themselves socialists and would feel even worse about conservatives in reading these sentiments. At the same time, their platform is mostly socialist even though they may not know that. So I wanted to get out the message that there is a difference between someone who believes in a compassionate liberal view, and those behind the movement who are well aware that they are introducing socialism. Even many of those people are not evil since they sincerely feel that is a better form of government. However, in order to protect the Constitution, we have to expose what is happening. How to find a way to do that without alienating open-minded liberals is something I would love help doing. And the first step is differentiating between members of the party, and those who are directly attacking our freedoms.
As far as people who accept things without question, I agree wholeheartedly with that and have said similar things many times. I will differentiate however, between things that are not generally accepted facts, from things that are taken from primary sources and are accepted history. There is a difference.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:16 pm.
Granted.
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:20 pm.
Oops, I didn’t notice your question, Chuck. News and Comments would be perfect for a joke.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:26 pm.
Joy, how about a joke book to illustrate differences between liberals and conservatives…
(I want some of the royalties)
Hank Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:40 pm.
Hooray now this feels better. I agree with what you have all been saying, I just didn’t know I agreed until I read it because I hadn’t thought of most of it. This is like a good school.
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:48 pm.
Great idea, Chuck, but you get the royalties because you are the prince and I’m just a babydoll 
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 10:54 pm.
OK everybody, make up some good and timely political jokes and send them in to Joy and Terrie (remember they must have a message). If we can’t win the presidency we can at least help these ladies make some serious money.
Stumpy, thinking of you made me remember the first time I made up a joke. Giving a report on Shakespeare’s ‘Anthony and Cleopatra’. At the end Cleopatra is bitten by an asp and dies. My friend Dean raised his hand and asked, “What is an asp?” I replied, “A donkey with a lisp.”
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:01 pm.
Oh man, can’t you find a political twist for that one? It’s a killer. That will keep me laughing all night.
Hank Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:02 pm.
Is it just cause of Stumpy that that is so hilarious? I’ll find out Monday when I tell it to my buddies.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:03 pm.
… a democrat with a lisp?
Joy Bischoff Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:05 pm.
Okay that took me a few seconds to get it but when I did my kids were wondering what I was laughing about. Careful, I’m tired and on the verge of silliness and that isn’t a pretty sight.
Saddened Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:11 pm.
Hey, you all drove the rain clouds away. Tonight I feel like changing my name here but then no one would know who I was.
Chuck C Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:13 pm.
An elephant trainer and a donkey trainer traded jobs for a day. When they traded back the following day the elephant trainer said…
Iffer Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:14 pm.
LOL! You guys are hilarious 
Nalvy Says:
15 March 2008 at 11:52 pm.
Wow I love how this whole conversation went in so many different directions!!!!
I love this site..there is always something that brightens my day up.
Oh and Peter…lighten up a little would ya? I wasnt homeschooled and I can see the things others have pointed out.
Pickles Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:16 am.
Just got back from a date and thought I’d see if anything had happened here. Glad I did. Big relief and now I’ll go to bed laughing my head off.
Stumpy Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:30 am.
…We cant do that again. Obama stays with you cause he has ears only his fellow asses could love.
Then the donkey trainer said…you are right. And McCain tells so many lies that not one democrat was fooled. Look at that nose. Its really freakin out all the asses cause he likes to kiss there behinds with that trunk.
But in the end even though McCain stayed with the republicans, he told so many lies that his nose grew long enough to reach across the aisle and keep kissing asses.
Chuck C Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:40 am.
now we’re cookin’
Jesse Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:42 am.
Stumpy and Chuck on the road. You’d make a fortune. LOL
Chuck C Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:48 am.
Hillary, standing in the stall next to Obama, turned to him and said…
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 12:59 am.
Well I guess I am a fanatic then Peter cause I am thinking seriously of homeschooling my kids. Did you know that home schooled kids soundly beat other kids per capita on competency tests? I am not going to source this because I am lazy and want to go to my fanatical religious services in the morning. So I am off to bed.
Wow Stumpy, you are so clever with double meaning and so on. You should write books. Or do you?
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:00 am.
Is that A bathroom stall, Chuck?
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:08 am.
Cause if is,
Hillary said, “ha, I knew you weren’t black”
“to which Obama replied, I knew you weren’t a woman!”
Chuck C Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:08 am.
No, a stall like in a voting booth, dumby!
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:11 am.
OK you can take that one down Joy and Terrie, I deserve it. I am a bad bad boy.
Chuck C Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:11 am.
I answered too soon! You NAILED IT!
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:12 am.
I must be punished.
Cavetrollhead Says:
16 March 2008 at 1:17 am.
Being the Home schooling religious fanatic that I am - I am going to go flog myself 21 times for that comment. Once for every word of it.
Mac Says:
16 March 2008 at 10:13 am.
Good thing I already got back from church so I wouldn’t upset people for snorting every once in a while. I can’t decide what one I like best, the asp, the ass kissing elephant or the bathroom stall. Don’t flog Cave. We need you sharp for more of those.
Joy Bischoff Says:
16 March 2008 at 11:17 am.
Lucky you, Mac. I’m out the door to church and I have to try and not laugh.
Thanks a lot, Cave. You make me crack up and now I’m supposed to be good and take that off? It’s against the rules (somewhere in the universe) to remove a joke that you have laughed so hard over
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