4 March 2008
A Choice Between Unity or Anti-McCain
Posted by Joy Bischoff under: Constitution in Peril; Judaeo-Christian Values Under Attack; Presidential Election 2008 .
Folks, listen up. The ground is shifting beneath the feet of conservatives. Outside and inside forces are threatening, like an earthquake, to crumble the foundation of our political landscape. I have watched the discussions go on here at times concerning who to vote for in November. As you know, I have my own strongly held opinion on this score. Emotions run high and this is just as the liberals would have it. By foisting John McCain on us, they knew that stubborn conservatives would further fracture into entrenched camps of opinion. So we ask ourselves, what is most important, finding points of agreement to unify our party in preserving the Constitution? Or is defeating Senator McCain the first priority of the conservative movement?
I feel that if we don’t send a message to the Republic National Committee, then they will pull this trick again. The great psychologist, Pavlov, showed you can train dogs to salivate when a bell rings. The RNC knew full well that we could be trained to jump on board any band wagon they point to. They say jump and they don’t care if we grumble loudly as long as we end up jumping. I could go on ad naseum about all the reasons I cannot personally vote for McCain. BUT…I can also understand why someone else could feel they should vote for him. I don’t have to agree to at least see they have reasoning that tips the scale for them.
If we allow ourselves to be manipulated, if we underestimate the brilliance of the think tanks promoting leftist agendas, we will kick ourselves later with our Monday morning quarterbacking. THEY WANT TO DIVIDE US! We specifically have tried to promote the message of acceptance of all who love the Constitution, despite various differences in dogmas including who to vote for.
To those who support McCain and feel that unity of the party can only come through backing him, I would suggest reading the Introduction for this site. We do not unify around a man, we unify around principles as the hub of our political wheel. When we vote, we should be voting for someone who represents those principles. For some, McCain embodies enough of those principles to justify their vote. Fine, allow them that choice.
Can we get past our own stubbornness enough to accomplish this? If not here where we have focused on this cause, then where? If not now when it is hard, then when? Will it get easier? And how do we do this when we feel so intensely? Passionate logic over blind emotionalism. Nothing else will work. Pride is the enemy, not each other.
If we don’t hold together enough of a foundation on our political landscape, the vehicle of conservatism cannot roll forward but will fall into the cracks of disunity.
39 Comments so far...
Cameron Says:
4 March 2008 at 11:43 am.
I saw what was going on last night and purposely didn’t get involved. It looked like emotions were a little intense on both sides. We really cannot start looking at each other as enemies. How sick is that?
Peter Says:
4 March 2008 at 11:47 am.
Joy, this is the best thing you have written. Maybe I will feel a little more comfortable around here after this.
Jan W. Says:
4 March 2008 at 12:09 pm.
I guess I just really wanted to encourage people to not be dictated to and vote in a block for Mitt. I still think that is a good idea but you are right. It is more important to not let these events tear us apart. There is more than one way to accomplish things.
Stumpy Says:
4 March 2008 at 12:19 pm.
Y’all tell em girl! Tolerance - that is jist what we need. We also needed a jackass around this place jist to make it interesting. Im the first to admit that jackasses can do some good so dont you folks go driving away Chuck. Look - already Peter came back so the good is jist rolling on in. A jackass - a black sheep - maybe we can get a quack on our farm. I think we had one who called himself True Evangelical but our real evangelicals we have here runned him off. hehe okay so we didnt need that quack.
Chuck C Says:
4 March 2008 at 12:41 pm.
I emailed John McCain this morning and laid out my (our) discomfort with him. The email was pointed and a bit harsh. It is doubtful I will get a response, but at least its an attempt.
I respect everything that has been said, and I apologize for being a jackass. Its just that I cannot imagine any kind of benefits to be derived from Obama winning, except that “It took a Carter to get a Reagan.”… but can we afford this at this dangerous time in history?
To reiterate, I will NOT be voting for a MAN this time around. There is none with whom I am comfortable. My vote will be AGAINST OBAMA or Clinton.
OBAMA OR McCAIN:
TAXES: McCain
JUDGES: McCain
DEFENSE: McCain
HEALTH CARE: McCain
EDUCATION: McCain
SECURITY: McCain
ABORTION: McCain
INTEGRITY: bleep
MORALITY: bleep
A speaker is on Rush right now who voted for Romney in the primary and McCain was her last choice. But now she “cannot even fathom Obama or Clinton” winning. I agree, but will not just fall in line with his agenda. He will need dogs at his heels, and we can bark and nip as long as it takes.
Some believe McCain is unstable enough to get us into WWIII. Not to sound wimpy, but my hope and belief is that the Mantle of the Presidency will rest on him and check such impulses.
Joy Bischoff Says:
4 March 2008 at 1:46 pm.
Chuck, I support your choice of McCain. You asked us to outline why we didn’t want to support him a couple of weeks ago and dozens of people did. I don’t think we should go through all that again. People can decide for themselves.
Chuck C Says:
4 March 2008 at 2:03 pm.
My choice is NOT McCain. It is NOT Obama. Bye.
Pickles Says:
4 March 2008 at 3:35 pm.
um…don’t really get what’s going on around here but thought I would say cool photo up there.
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 5:40 pm.
You make your own choice and I will respect you anyway but. . .
I refuse to vote for McCain because I want to save the conservative movement.
I THINK I NEED TO REITERATE MY REASONING:
I think that McCain is CLEARLY a better choice than Obama, and CLEARLY a better choice than Clinton. However, I am NOT voting with the next four or eight years in mind. I am voting with the whole future of the conservative (traditional liberal) agenda in mind.
If we lose leverage in the republican party, we lose conservatism forever. We will have no party unless we are successful with a third party. I hate so sound pecimistice but I think we have to be realistic- a third party is not going to fly.
So we have one choice to save conservatism and that is to bring the party back to us. If we are complicit to the leftward drift, conservatism is dead. That is what Rush was saying when he said that if Huckabee or McCain wins, it will destroy the party. Of course the party will still exist but it will be destroyed in the sense that it will no longer be a conservative party.
The republican party can die for all I care, except it is the only place we conservatives have political leverage. It is now or never. We have to pull the party back now or we conservatives fall into the margins.
Are we willing to choose to sink slowly instead of quickly, or are we choosing to not sink at all? I vote that we choose not to sink at all. If McCain wins it just slows the inevitable sinking of our agenda. If he loses, the party again looks to conservatives for support. That is why I will not vote for McCain and I will try to convince everyone else to follow me.
I would have gladly voted for Duncan Hunter, or Fred Thompson, or maybe even Ron Paul since the Iraq war is winding down toward stability and they are conservative. But not McCain.
One final point that Rush made and that I agree with. The economy is headed south. It depends who you believe how sharply it goes south. At any rate, the president of the next term will take the heat for it, weather he/she is R or D. Whichever party holds the presidency will lose face in the public eye. It might as well be the Ds so the Rs can save the day and gain long term face in the public eye.
BTW, we still have the chance to pull congress to the right THIS election cycle to counter Obama’s agenda.
Joy Bischoff Says:
4 March 2008 at 5:47 pm.
I hope people didn’t think I was telling people not to discuss this issue. I didn’t want anyone on the defensive and feeling that they had to justify themselves. I also didn’t want Chuck feeling attacked. Cave, I appreciate the respectful way you treat people here including this today. I also personally like what you have written about your reasoning behind your decision. Thanks.
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:00 pm.
Joy I completely agree with what you have said. I have tremendous respect for the people who are commenting and blogging here. This is a first class site with first class people. We can’t expect to agree on everything and I think we all stand for the right. We just disagree sometimes with the means. Vigorous debate among people of good will, who are grounded in scriptural values is rich soil for progress.
CindyL. Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:03 pm.
We can just take the positive from this. If we remember what is most important, like Joy says, disunifying conservatives will really make the liberals win. We just have to keep our heads and not turn against each other. This is probably just a microcosm of what is going on out there in the general population of conservatives so we can remember to keep our priorities on not being torn apart.
Matt Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:13 pm.
Okay, good thoughts people. We can move on from this. Seriously, if we separate as a party into those who will vote for McCain and those who won’t, that split would finish us off. I think at times I have been kind of negative here with those who disagree with my position. McCain got shoved down our throats so we don’t have the right to shove not supporting him down other people’s throats. I can’t really tell what Chuck is trying to say. I read the stuff from last night and thought I did but what he wrote today sounded different so I guess I just won’t worry about it and I’ll let him work it out without me harping on him. That is if he comes back which it kind of sounds like he won’t. After reading the blog Joy wrote here, that would be really sad.
Terrie Soberg Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:18 pm.
Note: I wrote my comment earlier and just came down to find that I had not pressed the Submit button. So now, here goes:
Joy, you are right. We do not need to rehash the debate on McCain again. In my opinion, this boils down to a few simple facts.
1. The Establishment has directly worked to force us to support McCain by doing everything possible to boot out Romney. The others took care of themselves.
2. The purpose for getting us to support McCain is to move us as a party from being conservative to the center.
3. Once they have gotten us on board to compromise for a moderate, they will make sure he does not win. They have enough crap on McCain to make sure he’d lose a dozen elections.
4. In the end, they will have moved our party to the left because we consented to compromise for McCain.
McCain will not win the Presidency. If someone votes for the Republican party, by corollary, they are choosing McCain. It is important to me that the Lord knows where I stand. When the voice of the people elect evil, they are filling to cup of the Lord’s wrath until we are ripe for destruction. I don’t want my voice, or vote, to be even one drop in that cup.
Each has his own reasons why he will vote for a particular candidate and we accept all here at our site, even those who might vote for Hillary or Obama. We are not here to judge. We are working to teach people about the importance of the Constitution. We can only do that if we are respectful of others and stay on track. We aim to be a beacon of light in a dark world. My job is to keep our site focused. Stumpy gets away with things he perhaps shouldn’t, but that because he is so darn cute and funny. And I have even gotten on his case before.
I feel that the Lord is very much the owner of this site and I am only the steward of this little part of HIS internet vineyard. I do not want to offend anyone nor to I want others to offend or be offended. It is very clear to me that He has some important information that he wants people to have access to. Perhaps some toes will have to be stepped on to accomplish the Lord’s goals. I am often reminded that I do have some pride issues that I have to work on continually.
For the LDS folks here, Mosiah 18:21 says, “And he commanded them that there should be no contention one with another, but that they should look forward with one eye, having one faith and one baptism, having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one towards another.”
Even though we have many who are not LDS, I believe the same principle of being knit together in unity and love holds true. Satan would have us be divided and working at cross-purposes. That simply cannot be allowed.
Chuck, I hope your “bye” does not mean you are gone for good. You have made some wonderful additions to our site and I appreciate them.
Cheers, people! We are promised all will be well one day. Until then, we continue to fight against evil and stand for the right (pun intended!)
Stumpy Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:32 pm.
Pickles and Iffer - I was a bad boy today and I hurt Chucks feelings. Its broken my spirit. My hands are hanging down and when that happens good people are spose to lift ‘em up. I got two hands girls.
Chuck C Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:37 pm.
Bye did not mean that. Please let me apologize for my arrogance and rude behavior. Over the short time I have intruded on you guys I have really come to respect and appreciate all of you. I think each of you know I struggle with this dilemma. Terrie, you and Joy are awesome!
In the Federalist Madison wrote, “Cool and candid people will at once reflect… that the choice must always be made, if not of the lesser evil, at least of the greater, not the perfect, good; and that in every political institution, a power to advance the public happiness involves a discretion which may be misapplied and abused.” These sentiments had caused my continued reflection.
Again, please forgive my too candid reflections. See ya ’round the bend.
Chuck C Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:42 pm.
Oh, and by the way. My feelings have not been hurt in the least by anything that has been written. If we can’t take it from people we love, then pity us. If I did not struggle with these opinions, that are shaky to say the least, I would not have written anything. I look for understanding, of course. But I really look for reproof and correction. I want to learn and improve and you all make that happen. I just want what is best for this great ol’ U.S. of A.
Another by the way… a great theme song for Obama is “The Candy Man.” Can anybody make up some good spoof lyrics for it? This morning Laura Ingram described him and almost quoted the song, but missed the connection.
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:43 pm.
Chuck, you cruel and insensitive arrogant %@$^!!!
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:45 pm.
Or I mean,
apology accepted. After twenty push-ups.
Actually I am not sure where this . . .whatever it is took place but I am sure you were in the wrong and I am sure you deserve whatever you got.
So drop and give me twenty.
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:51 pm.
Chuck,
If Obama wins the presidency, will we be an ObamaNation?
Nalvy Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:54 pm.
Well so that was all very interesting and fun… except all the bashing lol
I think it is al very well and good that people can think for themselves and have their own opinions… that is kind of very important nowadays. But with having our own opinions we all forget evey once in awhile that someone may not believe as we do.
The solution here is to think outside of ourselves…look at what everyone else is seeing and dont push yourself onto others
Terrie Soberg Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:55 pm.
As long as they don’t call us Obamicans!
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 6:58 pm.
We will be Obamatons in
The ObamaNation of Desolation
Terrie Soberg Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:00 pm.
Hmm, obamanation in the eyes of the Lord…desolation of obamanation…oops, correction, obamanation of desolation!…the great and obamanable church? Gives a whole new perspective, eh?
Terrie Soberg Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:06 pm.
Thanks, Chuck. As long as we all remain teachable, the Lord can still work with us!
Joy Bischoff Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:21 pm.
You guys are funny. Obamanation is my favorite. Thanks for lightening the mood. And most of all, thanks, Chuck.
Pickles Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:24 pm.
Okay Stumpy but just this once, then that other girl has to go. And she has to milk the donkey.
Iffer Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:37 pm.
But if i’m milking the donkey what will you be doing??
Iffer Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:46 pm.
Stumpy…. I don’t think Pickles likes to share, so you’ll have to choose between us…
(shouldn’t be to hard…)
Pickles Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:51 pm.
That’s right Iffer. Easy choice. He is very iffy about you but I pickle tickle his fancy.
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 7:55 pm.
Common now Ladies, there’s plenty of ol’ Stumpy to go around.
Iffer Says:
4 March 2008 at 9:03 pm.
Pickles you wanna fight? I got a pool of jello in my backyard ready!
Iffer Says:
4 March 2008 at 9:07 pm.
I eat cucumbers like you for lunch and for an occasional snack!
Cavetrollhead Says:
4 March 2008 at 9:10 pm.
Ha ha! Iffer, you are killing me.
T. Fan Says:
4 March 2008 at 9:38 pm.
So, now I know. I need to act like a crotchety old man to get the ladies.
Iffer Says:
4 March 2008 at 11:10 pm.
Or maybe you just need to get yourself a nice as… i mean donkey…
tony Says:
6 March 2008 at 1:01 pm.
holy cow iffer that is awesome… but i think my as.. donkey.. is much better then stumpys….correct me if i am wrong..
rorin Says:
6 March 2008 at 1:32 pm.
Ok you guys are starting to get really strange but I wanted to interject a serious comment here. I think most of us are at the point where we are not comfortable with any of the candidates left and that makes it a very hard and emotional decision. I don’t know if it is possible for us to be united on this but as Joy said we don’t need to be unified around a man but rather we need to be unified around principles. No candidate will ever be perfect but there are perfect principles to live by. Whatever happens lets focus on the principles our founding fathers gave us that made this nation great and forgive each other our little foibles.
Cavetrollhead Says:
6 March 2008 at 2:08 pm.
Yes. Joy hit it on the head, Rorin and it is worth reiterating.
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