31 January 2008
The Orcs are Coming
Posted by Joy Bischoff under: Constitution in Peril; Judaeo-Christian Values Under Attack; Presidential Election 2008; Rejecting Herd Mentality .
I am concerned that my blog yesterday may have stifled debate, and that is just opposite of what I was hoping would happen. Healthy debate is necessary if we are to accomplish anything. Polite platitudes without real discussion would defeat our purpose. Unity without substance would just be a social gathering and would accomplish little. Here is what I think we should do as a site community:
1. Find and define common political ground.
We want your help in doing this. We do not want to control the details of what should be accomplished here. That should be formed by the community.
2. Decide upon, refine, focus and spread a plan of action.
We are only a tiny speck on the web but the ideas we espouse can spread if we all help. There is already a lot of awareness out there that the conservative base is in trouble. Our message should resonate with a lot of people, especially since there is a similar but opposite message beginning to gain ground. That is the idea that if we don’t become more moderate in our views (which actually means liberal), then we will be responsible for ruining our party and damaging the country.
3. Learn to discuss divisive issues without dividing as a community.
This morning Rush talked about what is now widely being discussed by the liberals; the fracturing of the conservative base. Rush’s brother believes a big part of this is because of the war. I heard that comment ten minutes after jotting down my ideas for writing this blog. One thing I had written was that I believe we have some major issues that are dividing our base, the war being number one.
4. Identify areas causing division in the Republican Party.
I believe the war is first, and then perhaps whether there was governmental complicity in 9/11. Can we accept such widely different but sincerely held beliefs and still remain a unified party? Can we find ways to remain cohesive regarding the protection of the Constitution? What is more important, the war or salvaging the principles that protect freedom? Are these discussions we can have without breaking apart? I keep thinking of the book The Hobbit. At the end of the story, there is threat of war between the elves, dwarves and men. Because of mindless outrage, logic plays no part. Right before the fighting breaks out, the evil orcs come in great numbers and the previous three groups have to unite to defeat a bigger and more dangerous enemy. Don’t let the liberals succeed in pitting us against each other.
I do not believe people who are for, or people who are against the war are inherently evil because of their view. They have reasons for believing the way they do. We have a bigger enemy, and a greater cause, one that will affect future generations. Let us focus on that and remember to not let go of that glue that binds us when we have lively discussions here on a variety of topics.
Can we find ways to resist the pressure to pull our party to the left? Help us identify the sources of influence behind that pressure and ways to keep that influence from succeeding. Please share your ideas. I am going to sit back, not interfere and leave this to you. Don’t leave in a huff if someone differs from you since that will play into the problem of a divided party. Thanks to all who post and to those who only read. Terrie says our numbers are growing fast on this site even though most are only readers. That is very encouraging. She also has said that the percentage who are bookmarking this site is extremely high, far above the average. In addition, a number of blogs have been posting our articles. This is only the beginning.
59 Comments so far...
Cameron Says:
31 January 2008 at 5:53 pm.
That’s a big assignment but I like what you’re trying to do here. If the ideas belong to all of us then they have more power and we feel more inclined to work to make it happen. Suggestion, how about if someone has a thought on just one aspect, they share that?
Joy Bischoff Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:00 pm.
Yeah I should have made that clear. Don’t be intimidated to brain storm, folks. Even half of an idea for one point would be great. If nothing else, let us know how you feel about the main idea?
T. Fan Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:03 pm.
I am a little embarrassed to say it because I haven’t generally gotten into conspiracy stuff but Jesse may have a point. The big news all day is that we aren’t ready for an attack. They do make it sound scary. Catastrophic attack on New York and lots of other crap. It pulls the focus right to McCain. A week ago I wouldn’t have caught this but once you learn their tactics it starts to become obvious. Anyway, this has to do with identifying areas causing division in the Republican party. The war is being used by a tool and that is just wrong because I support what the troops are doing over there.
Peter Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:16 pm.
I just don’t agree that things are that well organized. The important thing is though, that whether or not it is a conspiracy that the end result will be the same if the Republican party is redefined. So I will let Jesse and people that are like-minded believe what they want. I’ll even put up with them being against the war so long as they want to keep the Constitution from being changed and want the same kind of judges that I do.
The Realist Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:30 pm.
I think something we can all agree on is that values cannot be compromised. Arnold endorsed McCain and said he had proven over and over again that he is reaching across the aisle. Compromise is important. We aren’t rigid and unreasonable like liberals claim. There are many things in politics that must be compromised on but we are not willing to compromise our values. If anyone here disagrees speak up.
Mac Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:39 pm.
The thing that makes the most sense to me is having an answer to the libs plan. They tell us to give up our values in order to bridge to gap and save America. No, we treat each other with respect and allow differences of opinion. This is the answer.
E.E. Says:
31 January 2008 at 6:47 pm.
This is in from Drudge - crapcrapcrapcrap I can’t believe it. McCain and Michael Reagan hate each other. How could she do this? Is she senile? I don’t mean to be mean but maybe she is?
EXCLUSIVE: NANCY REAGAN FOR MCCAIN, TOP SOURCE TELLS DRUDGE: ‘SHE ADORES HIM, AND IS FULLY SUPPORTING HIM IN HER PRIVATE LIFE. SHE WILL NOT PUBLICLY ENDORSE’…
Carrie Says:
31 January 2008 at 8:02 pm.
I think what Mac said needs to be focused on a lot. If we don’t settle for the libs plan we have to have a clear one of our own where we can say, no we have a better idea that wont trash the constitution.
Matt Says:
31 January 2008 at 8:03 pm.
that is the worst endorsement yet the worst news of the day
Jesse Says:
31 January 2008 at 9:22 pm.
Actually Nancy Reagan isn’t publicly endorsing McCain just privately but that doesn’t matter since the news was leaked anyway.
Jan W. Says:
31 January 2008 at 11:11 pm.
How about trying to get other websites to post this information to get around the press not doing their job? Or if not these posts at least the general idea of what we are trying to do. Once you get the idea of how the liberals are trying to divide you start to see it easily. So if anyone out there has a blog or knows people with one they should pass this information along.
Cameron Says:
31 January 2008 at 11:16 pm.
That’s a great idea Jan. I love the part in this blog about the Hobbit. I love Tolkien and think the man was inspired. Sometimes I think we can’t find common ground with such different ideas and beliefs but that example is perfect. Its crazy to fight among ourselves when we know perfectly well that there is a dangerous enemy out there.
The Realist Says:
31 January 2008 at 11:54 pm.
Every time there is a stressful run off in a primary people are afraid the party will be torn apart. It never is. People shouldn’t worry so much. It is true we can’t compromise our values but not doing so will not cause permanent problems. It is a cycle.
Cavetrollhead Says:
1 February 2008 at 1:00 am.
I don’t worry that that party will be torn apart. I worry that for the sake of keeping it together, we will compromise our values. Let it tear. Finding common ground it one thing, and important, but lets stick to our guns on the most important issues. The only thing is that we should disagree civilly. Remember how Reagan said that he didn’t leave the democratic party, but that the democratic party left him? The reason I can’t understand the support for McCain, for example, is that people are doing it because they think it is the best chance for the republicans to win. I want conservativism to win and I feel the republican party is leaving us. I am not suggesting a third party. But I will not vote for a liberal republican. This is the message I want to send to Washington republicans. If you don’t stand for conservatism, you won’t get my vote.
Jesse Says:
1 February 2008 at 8:36 am.
Right on Cavetrollhead. Let it tear if that is the result of us refusing to compromise our values. Christ talked about this.
Matthew 10:34-37 - For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
That use to really confuse me because family is so important but I think it shows us how to prioritize our life. God first before family and if someone in our family wants us to pick them over God even though it is hard we have to tell them God comes first. So for us here it means that even if it means tearing the family of conservatives apart we have to put values that we learned from the Lord first. And if other conservatives want to compromise then they really are leaving us we are not leaving them. I don’t want a third party either and I don’t want us to let th em drive us to a point where we move left or get out.
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 8:52 am.
It looks like the same thing is on other people’s minds. I have been wondering what to do if McCain gets the nomination. Send a message to Washington and the Republican Establishment so they don’t think we are mindless sheep or support McCain so the party isn’t hurt. Won’t it hurt the party more if we lose everything that makes us a party? What do you think?
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:00 am.
Ann Coulter said that McCain is bad for Republicanism last night on Hannity and Colmes. She said she would vote for Hillary over McCain. She said at least Hillary is smart enough to know when she is caught lying and McCain is so stupid he doesn’t know when he’s been caught lying. It was hilarious. Personally I couldn’t vote for Hillary but I couldn’t vote for McCain either. Someone said here yesterday that they think it is less honorable to be a wolf in sheeps clothing to just be a wolf. Hillary is a wolf. McCain is a wolf in sheeps clothing, he is pretending to be a Republican and that is worse. I will not vote for him. I will write in the name of a good Republican first.
Angela Rogin Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:02 am.
Wow I can’t believe how many Republicans are saying that. This is a hard one. I can’t stand Hillary and I don’t want her in there. She scares me but it is so weird and I never thought I would feel this way but McCain scares me worse. I’m with you Mac. I can’t vote for either one. I’m with you Cavetrollhead that if this tears the party apart then it isn’t us who moved and actually isn’t really tearing the party in half it is just moderates chosing to leave the party.
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:04 am.
Then in defining political ground like Joy wants us to do we should decide not to vote for McCain. I wonder if we should talk about the best alternative so we do it in a block?
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:08 am.
You guys are getting started early around here. This issue has probably been on all our minds. First I think we still need to work hard to get Mitt elected and not give up. Next IMO it maybe should stay a personal decision about whether or not to vote for McCain but kicking around thoughts is healthy. I don’t think we should make things so rigid that if someone on this site doesn’t agree with spliting the vote then they won’t feel like part of what we are doing here.
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:09 am.
Good point Cameron. Things need to be general enough to not drive people away or make their decisions for them. As for getting started early I live in the east so it isn’t so early out here.
Angela Rogin Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:12 am.
Okay then what we need is to identify issues that we want to work on together. Maybe work toward abortion rights or the marriage amendment so we are accomplishing something. Be an action group.
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:14 am.
I think there is nothing more important than the war on terror and that should be a top focus.
Stumpy Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:18 am.
Well then if y’all are deciding how to narrow this thing down then I get a vote to. I vote we sell tupperware. Nothin more important in my world. Keeps everything so fresh and we want to fight corruption right? Seriously though folks maybe we should get a little guidance from Joy since they wrote up that introduction and it seems like maybe we are veering a little from that basic idea of this place. Joy whip us into shape and wear leather. You dont want us to end up deciding we should be using this here place to sell girl scout cookies.
T. Fan Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:21 am.
I think I’ll jump in here too. Mac is right. There is nothing more important than the war on terror because if the jihadists get their way we won’t have a country left to help.
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:23 am.
Then I guess that leaves out all the people in the party who are anti-war and 9/11 truthers. Goodby Jesse. Guys go back and read this blog. Joy I think Stumpy is right. I want to know what you think.
Angela Rogin Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:34 am.
Okay I read it again and maybe the war issue is too narrow. I still don’t see why we can’t get together on social issues and do some good there?
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:42 am.
Angela I don’t think anyone is saying it is a bad idea. There are so many good things we could be involved in. I’m trying to figure out how to best accomplish what would be the very best thing to do here and try and keep it close to what the people who wanted to do when they started the site.
rorin Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:45 am.
Cameron that sounds like something from a sermon I heard a few months ago. We were told there are good things and better things. The thing for us to decide is what is the very best thing.
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:47 am.
Like T.Fan said, what could be more important than making sure we still have a country? We have to defeat our biggest enemy.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 9:59 am.
Good morning people. It is too early, not even eight am here and I have to get the brain to work. That’s okay, I’ve been thinking a lot about these things and talking with Roy about it. First let me address Angela’s suggestion about issues. Rorin gave me a good lead in.
There are many groups out there that are issue oriented like Focus on the Family. They are doing a very important work and we applaud them for it and when important things happen, we welcome our listeners to let us know. But I have to admit that Terrie, Roy and I want to do is more of a bottom line kind of thing. Let me gather a few thoughts and I will be back for the next point, war.
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:03 am.
That’s kind of what I was thinking you would say. I hope I didn’t offend you Angela because issues are important. There are just so many of them and if we are the same as all the other groups then we don’t do anything unique and important. Holding together conservatives seems like a real part of the bottom line so I want to hear everyone’s idea of how best to do that.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:06 am.
Cameron, maybe because you’ve been here the longest you have the best grasp of what we are trying to do. Also we are not a very big community yet when compared to big nation-wide organizations. Our best efforts should be in spreading ideas that will foster an atmosphere of freedom and unity.
Stumpy Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:07 am.
Size dont matter.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:13 am.
Stumpy be good. This is a G-rated site. BTW, I did like your earlier point today.
Okay, now to address Mac and T. Fan. Your comments have me thinking of a couple of ancient civilizations who were destroyed when there was a breakdown of values in their society. In both cases there was war and almost everyone became so caught up in a fog of fear, anger and hatred that to them, the most important thing was killing the enemy. Everyone ended up joining one army or another and even when it became apparent that total annihilation was going to be the outcome, they did not stop. Their number one priority was to destroy the enemy. Before I go on, let me ask. What should their number one priority should have been?
Stumpy Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:14 am.
hiding under the table cause they could never get past my cat
T. Fan Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:16 am.
But are the situations really the same? There has never been such a dangerous unreasonable enemy before. They want to kill us for no reason.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:21 am.
Fair question, T. Fan. When I was a student of Middle Eastern Studies, I had a Muslim professor and also got to know a lot of the Muslim students. Although I didn’t agree with their view, I saw that in their minds they were justified in their opinions. We really have to try and see where people are coming from. They believe the most important thing is to preserve their moral culture. They believe that our culture is the great satan and is the biggest threat to the morality of their people that exists. Of course I believe that their culture stifles freedom of choice and that morality should not be forced but that is not how they see it.
What we have to ask ourselves is what is more important? Our American culture of freedom or the war to preserve those freedom? What exactly is our military fighting to save? If we win but in the meantime, the principles of freedom that make us great have been lost, then what did we fight to save?
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:23 am.
I admit I have some prejudices against Muslims. I don’t understand them and they scare me. It is a little uncomfortable for me to hear you defending them. Are you saying that the war isn’t really important?
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:25 am.
I don’t think she is saying that. I think she is saying that preserving our culture is the higher priority. That doesn’t mean the second priority isn’t important to.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:27 am.
Since we are in the war, it is crucial that we win so we don’t weaken ourselves internationally. If we show weakness we put ourselves and our future in grave danger. But what is the real bottom line? What should have been the number one goal of those ancient civilizations that destroyed each other and themselves? And is that different than what our top goal should be?
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:29 am.
For me it should always be my relationship with the Lord. I think most people on this site are religious so I would bet a lot of them feel that way.
E.E. Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:30 am.
Maintaining a governmental structure so that people are free to worship God.
E.E. Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:31 am.
And btw, I wish there was some way to find out when a big discussion like this is going on. I almost missed it. Good morning everyone.
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:32 am.
I agree that God comes first but we are all forced to become Muslims then we can’t worship God.
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:34 am.
Like I said before, having a top priority doesn’t mean a second one doesn’t matter. Number one focus should be based on love not hate. If we hate our enemy more than we love God then we have a problem. So if destroying the enemy is what we put first above fighting for a values based culture where we can believe in God then we are messed up.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:36 am.
My point exactly. If our eyes are only on the enemy in front of us then the internal enemy who wants to sneak our freedoms away from us can come in the back door. Most of us understand that radical Islam is dangerous. Not as many understand how dangerous liberalism is and the socialism they are bringing to this country. So what do you guys think is the greatest danger to our personal worship and climate of freedom? I mean really the bottom line, not the obvious?
Stumpy Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:38 am.
I aint gonna try an answer that. Dont wanna wear the dunce cap.
E.E. Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:39 am.
Is it liberals?
Jesse Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:41 am.
Ignorance
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:44 am.
E.E. I can only give my opinion which is no better than anyone else’s here. But since I was asked I will share what I feel about this. My husband and I have talked a lot about these things. Jesse, you get the prize. Welcome to the discussion. I am convinced that ignorance is the biggest problem but I would love for you guys to help me out with this. I am not your teacher, just one of you. What kind of ignorance are we talking about?
Jesse Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:46 am.
The basic principles of freedom that our Founding Fathers studied and used to create the Constitution. These are being lost because they are no longer understood. People use to talk about this stuff. It use to be taught in schools but it isn’t taught the same. They teach about what is in it but not why. If we don’t understand these things then we don’t know they are in danger and we can’t protect ourselves from encroachment by the liberals.
E.E. Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:49 am.
I get it. If we understand the thoughts behind the freedoms we were given in the constitution then we have our eyes open to reality and we recognize the dangers to that freedom. We can’t stop the encroachment if we don’t know where it is coming from or recognize it when it comes. And it usually comes as a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is starting to really scare me. Do you think John McCain could really be that bad?
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:49 am.
Good point Cameron. I guess I can understand this.
T. Fan Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:51 am.
Then the reverse is true. We have to understand the principles of socialism if we are going to recognize it since it is the opposite of freedom.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:52 am.
What did I tell you? You guys had the answers all along. Just a tiny bit of focus and we are on the same page. That is because we are true conservatives. Keep it up.
Cameron Says:
1 February 2008 at 10:54 am.
Then what we do here is start identifying political truths and their opposites. This thread is getting long. Can we start a new one?
Mac Says:
1 February 2008 at 11:02 am.
Liberals would say that our political truths are relative. They don’t believe in absolutes. Everything seems relative to McCain. He absolutely won’t stick to anything.
Joy Bischoff Says:
1 February 2008 at 11:03 am.
Give me five minutes folks and I will have a new blog that will continue this discussion. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Cameron.
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